Old South

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

KSig, I spent about 1/3 of my childhood/teen years in New Jersey. Trust me when I say that the mindset of which I spoke was VERY evident. If I had a nickel for every time I heard "Well, at least we WON the war!" after being subjected to being insulted for merely being from the south I would be a very wealthy woman. It may be that as a southerner I was subjected to this, while you as a native born yankee were not. There have been more historians presenting more balanced views of the Late Unpleasantness since the 70s I think - perhaps things are better now. I hope so.

I'd still argue my logic is spot-on. If the primary premise is that 1.) Having slavery legal = racism, and the secondary premise is 2.)The Union had legal slavery, then a logical conclusion is that Union = Racism. You can plug in C.S.A. and get the same result - and my point is that no one would have had a problem with Upsilon Alpha (see what I did there? Union Army?!) coming past the AKA house in Union blue. (Although if you have read any of Sherman's very own reports in U.S. military records, you might think differently.) If I have unwittingly slipped into a logical fallacy please let me know which one. (Bear in mind I teach logic, so if you call my logic into question I am going to ask you to let me know exactly how it fails!).

You said it made more logical sense to be offended by Union blue than it did by Confederate uniforms. You never said the two were equal. If you said the two were equal, then I can understand that statement a little more.

ETA: I'll respect the fact that you teach logic...but I do know a little about the Civil War, having been a history major in college and studied under a scholar in the subject. So I guess we could probably teach each other quite a bit.

Originally Posted by AOEforme

On the other hand, if I had a nickle for every time I heard that same exact phrase from Southerners, I'd stop worrying about paying for med school and my summer trip to Europe.

A lot of my family is from Mizzou, Georgia, and Alabama, and I'll hear that constantly from them or other people when I'm visiting. ("You know WE really won the war, right?")

Exactly - you hear things along these lines in both the North and South. I like visiting the South and have enjoyed my time there, but it never fails that I'll get comments from complete strangers along the same lines when I'm down there. To say it happens more frequently in one area than the other is incorrect.

[SWTXBelle]

To clarify - it makes MORE sense if you weigh the fact that the Union had slavery LONGER than the CSA. Sorry if I wasn't more clear - and while that makes more logical sense, my ultimate point is that it's silly to get into that particular contest, since both sides were guilty of the same sin. I didn't think you were rude, btw.

As to history - I met my husband doing living history presentations for local schools. (I played a resident of occupied New Orleans - he was a hateful Yankee a la Beast Butler's school of charm.) He is a history professor who is the protege of Tuffly Ellis, and is a published WBTS scholar. Not the same thing as having the degrees myself, but I am surrounded by a great deal of the stuff, and you'd be surprised at what constitutes dinner conversation 'round here.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Beryana

What you are thinking of as the 'Confederate Flag' is actually the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.

Or the second navy jack -- same basic design, but rectangular rather than square and no white border.

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

It very well could be my general lack of Civil War knowledge but I've never fully understood how the Rebel Flag came to be a sign of slavery.

As SWTXBelle says, it's not really so much a symbol of slavery per se. But thanks to the way that the battle flag/navy jack ("the Confederate/Rebel flag") was used/co-opted by white supremacist groups like the Klan and by those opposing desegregation, it became associated with white supremacy and Jim Crowism.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

As a proud southerner I am appalled any time any symbols of the C.S.A. are used by any racist groups. I consider it an insult to the memory of my ancestors.

Ditto.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Exactly - you hear things along these lines in both the North and South. I like visiting the South and have enjoyed my time there, but it never fails that I'll get comments from complete strangers along the same lines when I'm down there. To say it happens more frequently in one area than the other is incorrect.

No kidding. Between my college boyfriend being from South Carolina, a ton of cousins in Georgia and Virginia, and my current boyfriend's family in Florida, I've been called Yankee more times than I can count. Um, I'm from Washington state, which wasn't even a state until 1889! Leave us out of it!