Drug Testing for welfare recipients

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by madmax

More excuses by DamonSeid.

It is funny that you want to do away with the stereotype of welfare recipients are too lazy to work and then use an example of a 21 year old with a 5th grade education. He must be a real hard worker.

No...what's funny is that YOU used a stereotype

They probabley won't get good jobs but that is their problem for thinking they were going to be rappers or NBA stars and not going to school.

In da hood they are considered sellouts to da man if they go to school and have a job.


21 years old with a 5th grade education is a very real thing, THAT is a reality.


Go back and look at the stats I posted yesterday...not everyone on welfare "lives in da hood", wants to rap, or be an NBA baller HOWEVER a good number who ARE on welfare POSSIBLY has a substandard job which is why in most municipalities, anyone ON WELFARE is eligible to take free or very low cost programs to be able to get their GED.

Know the difference.


Has it ever occured to you that on this particular topic (and everytime you attempt to try and diss people who grew up in urban areas) that you sound like you are talking out the side of your neck?

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Shut the system down and it's instant Anarchy...just add water.

probably...what did that have to do with my point that adding layer upon layer of government programming won't solve anything. I think it needs to be re-built, I never said wellfare should be done away with.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

probably...what did that have to do with my point that adding layer upon layer of government programming won't solve anything.

Nothing bruh...was cosigning on this:

Except that addicts being cut-off cold turkey tend to be delusional to the point of violence, whether directed at themselves, or others.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

21 years old with a 5th grade education is a very real thing, THAT is a reality..

That is the problem. Why don't you tell us why there are 21 year olds in your hood with 5th grade educations. I already covered the main reasons. The welfare reciptients are lazy. The parents are idiots and they don't value education. Welfare recipients are like Dallas Cowboys fans, they are the result of bad parenting.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Go back and look at the stats I posted yesterday...not everyone on welfare "lives in da hood", wants to rap, or be an NBA baller HOWEVER a good number who ARE on welfare POSSIBLY has a substandard job which is why in most municipalities, anyone ON WELFARE is eligible to take free or very low cost programs to be able to get their GED..

So what is your excuse for the welfare recipients not having an education? Whose fault is that? Are you going to blame da man for holding you down? It is like you said there are low cost and FREE educational programs.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Has it ever occured to you that on this particular topic (and everytime you attempt to try and diss people who grew up in urban areas) that you sound like you are talking out the side of your neck?

I don't care if the slackards are rednecks living in a trailer on a mountain or from a ghetto. They are all the same in my book. I would cut them all off.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by madmax

That is the problem. Why don't you tell us why there are 21 year olds in your hood with 5th grade educations. I already covered the main reasons. The welfare reciptients are lazy. The parents are idiots and they don't value education. Welfare recipients are like Dallas Cowboys fans, they are the result of bad parenting.


So what is your excuse for the welfare recipients not having an education? Whose fault is that? Are you going to blame da man for holding you down? It is like you said there are low cost and FREE educational programs.

I don't care if the slackards are rednecks living in a trailer on a mountain or from a ghetto. They are all the same in my book. I would cut them all off.

You know what you are a waste of good air...still sterotyping huh? "Da Man...Da Man." You are just as bad as any idiot who actually uses that excuse.

And I bet you are itching to play that race card again...not that kinda game

If it doesn't affect you, why bother?

...that is the attitude you exhibit.

Let me throw this question at you since you are so hell bent on abolishing welfare across the board.

You want to kick everyone off of welfare. Done. Now they are off.

HOW would you go about getting those millions on their feet to be productive Americans since you have effectively made a population of people homeless?


What program would you put in place to make sure these people you kicked off of welfare got adequate house?

What would you do to make sure these people you just kicked off of welfare got a job so they don't take from us tax paying citizens?

What program would you put into place to make sure these people you just kicked off of welfare got adequate mental and physical treatment for drug abuse, poor health habits, and adequate care for children and babies?

How much would you be willing to spend on these programs to ensure anarchy wouldn't come about after you just kicked all of these people off of welfare?

But most importantly since you made a few million of these American citizens homeless where would you be willing to relocate them and at what cost? Who would be responsible for paying for that. Hey, you just displaced these people and I will not let you use my tax dollars to do so, so Mr I Just Kicked All of These Mofos Off of Welfare, what do you do?


I bet you can't answer any of these can you?

[madmax]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Let me throw this question at you since you are so hell bent on abolishing welfare across the board.

You want to kick everyone off of welfare. Done. Now they are off.

HOW would you go about getting those millions on their feet to be productive Americans since you have effectively made a population of people homeless?

I would not do chit. It isn't my job to get some hoodrat on his feet. It is HIS job just like it was my job to get myself on my feet. That is the thing about you Dems, you always want someone to do something for you. Get off your arse and do it yourself.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

What program would you put in place to make sure these people you kicked off of welfare got adequate house?

The slackards that are willing can go back to school. My only programs will be school or jail. The choice is yours.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

What would you do to make sure these people you just kicked off of welfare got a job so they don't take from us tax paying citizens?

Again, the dems are always looking for handouts. Who helped me get a job? Who helped me get a job? Why is it that illegal aliens are able to sneak across the border and find jobs and housing?

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

What program would you put into place to make sure these people you just kicked off of welfare got adequate mental and physical treatment for drug abuse, poor health habits, and adequate care for children and babies?

Nothing

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

How much would you be willing to spend on these programs to ensure anarchy wouldn't come about after you just kicked all of these people off of welfare?

Not much. Again, school or jail. Your choice.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

But most importantly since you made a few million of these American citizens homeless where would you be willing to relocate them and at what cost? Who would be responsible for paying for that. Hey, you just displaced these people and I will not let you use my tax dollars to do so, so Mr I Just Kicked All of These Mofos Off of Welfare, what do you do?

I didn't make them homeless. They made themselves homeless because they were too stupid to go to school. You are always looking to blame da man for your problems aren't you? Did you learn that from Jeremiah Wright? Even Obama said the families need to do a better job when it comes to education. Whose fault is it that there are 21 year olds in your hood with 5th grade educations?

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I bet you can't answer any of these can you?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by madmax

I didn't make them homeless. They made themselves homeless because they were too stupid to go to school. You are always looking to blame da man for your problems aren't you? Did you learn that from Jeremiah Wright? Even Obama said the families need to do a better job when it comes to education. Whose fault is it that there are 21 year olds in your hood with 5th grade educations?

God, you are such a tool and not even a useful one.

Even Republicans got enough sense to know that rolling back welfare isn't as simple as you are making it.

[BrianB]

Yes and do it. Tired of dead beats getting spiff Government money to do drugs.

It is mine and others money via tax who are paying for it!

[madmax]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

God, you are such a tool and not even a useful one.

Even Republicans got enough sense to know that rolling back welfare isn't as simple as you are making it.

How do you explain 21 year olds with 5th grade educations?

Your problem is you want to address the symptom and ignore the cause. I guess it is easier to ingore the cause when the people in the neighborhood are the cause.




http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/ne...ote=1&p=807727

Originally Posted by Rudey

It's not my battle but I figured some people might be interested in it. Anyway discuss.

Breaking the Silence
By HENRY LOUIS GATES JR.

Published: August 1, 2004


Go into any inner-city neighborhood," Barack Obama said in his keynote address to the Democratic National Convention, "and folks will tell you that government alone can't teach kids to learn. They know that parents have to parent, that children can't achieve unless we raise their expectations and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white." In a speech filled with rousing applause lines, it was a line that many black Democratic delegates found especially galvanizing. Not just because they agreed, but because it was a home truth they'd seldom heard a politician say out loud.

Why has it been so difficult for black leaders to say such things in public, without being pilloried for "blaming the victim"? Why the huge flap over Bill Cosby's insistence that black teenagers do their homework, stay in school, master standard English and stop having babies? Any black person who frequents a barbershop or beauty parlor in the inner city knows that Mr. Cosby was only echoing sentiments widely shared in the black community.

"If our people studied calculus like we studied basketball," my father, age 91, once remarked as we drove past a packed inner-city basketball court at midnight, "we'd be running M.I.T." When my brother and I were growing up in the 50's, our parents convinced us that the "blackest" thing that we could be was a doctor or a lawyer. We admired Hank Aaron and Willie Mays, but our real heroes were people like Thurgood Marshall, Dr. Benjamin Mays and Mary McLeod Bethune.

Yet in too many black neighborhoods today, academic achievement has actually come to be stigmatized. "We are just not the same people anymore," says the mayor of Memphis, Dr. Willie W. Herenton. "We are worse off than we were before Brown v. Board," says Dr. James Comer, a child psychiatrist at Yale. "And a large part of the reason for this is that we have abandoned our own black traditional core values, values that sustained us through slavery and Jim Crow segregation."

Making it, as Mr. Obama told me, "requires diligent effort and deferred gratification. Everybody sitting around their kitchen table knows that."

"Americans suffer from anti-intellectualism, starting in the White House," Mr. Obama went on. "Our people can least afford to be anti-intellectual." Too many of our children have come to believe that it's easier to become a black professional athlete than a doctor or lawyer. Reality check: according to the 2000 census, there were more than 31,000 black physicians and surgeons, 33,000 black lawyers and 5,000 black dentists. Guess how many black athletes are playing professional basketball, football and baseball combined. About 1,400. In fact, there are more board-certified black cardiologists than there are black professional basketball players. "We talk about leaving no child behind," says Dena Wallerson, a sociologist at Connecticut College. "The reality is that we are allowing our own children to be left behind." Nearly a third of black children are born into poverty. The question is: why?

Scholars such as my Harvard colleague William Julius Wilson say that the causes of black poverty are both structural and behavioral. Think of structural causes as "the devil made me do it," and behavioral causes as "the devil is in me." Structural causes are faceless systemic forces, like the disappearance of jobs. Behavioral causes are self-destructive life choices and personal habits. To break the conspiracy of silence, we have to address both of these factors.

"A lot of us," Mr. Obama argues, "hesitate to discuss these things in public because we think that if we do so it lets the larger society off the hook. We're stuck in an either/or mentality - that the problem is either societal or it's cultural."

It's important to talk about life chances - about the constricted set of opportunities that poverty brings. But to treat black people as if they're helpless rag dolls swept up and buffeted by vast social trends - as if they had no say in the shaping of their lives - is a supreme act of condescension. Only 50 percent of all black children graduate from high school; an estimated 64 percent of black teenage girls will become pregnant. (Black children raised by female "householders" are five times as likely to live in poverty as those raised by married couples.) Are white racists forcing black teenagers to drop out of school or to have babies?

Mr. Cosby got a lot of flak for complaining about children who couldn't speak standard English. Yet it isn't a derogation of the black vernacular - a marvelously rich and inventive tongue - to point out that there's a language of the marketplace, too, and learning to speak that language has generally been a precondition for economic success, whoever you are. When we let black youth become monolingual, we've limited their imaginative and economic possibilities.

These issues can be ticklish, no question, but they're badly served by silence or squeamishness. Mr. Obama showed how to get the balance right. We've got to create as many opportunities as we can for the worst-off - and "make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life." But values matter, too. We can't talk about the choices people have without talking about the choices people make.

Reaad the rest at http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/01/op...1gates.html?hp

-Rudey

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by madmax

How do you explain 21 year olds with 5th grade educations?

Your problem is you want to address the symptom and ignore the cause. I guess it is easier to ingore the cause when the people in the neighborhood are the cause.

I answered that in counter to your sterotyping of people who are on welfare.
You still aren't answering my present question.

Ok...so that is ONE OF the causes and most of us know that is but one of a few problems that happen to people black, white, and others who live in low income environments max....you are so quick to say take welfare away and let the hoodrats and rednecks sort it out...how is instantaneous cessation of welfare benefits solving the problem? That is my question to you that you have been slipsliding on.

You still have yet to explain that and that is your problem, you can't and you won't admit that you have no answer for.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by madmax

How do you explain 21 year olds with 5th grade educations?

Your problem is you want to address the symptom and ignore the cause. I guess it is easier to ingore the cause when the people in the neighborhood are the cause.

I've only ever heard of mountain/trailer park people who are 21 with 5th grade educations. Hell ghetto people keep going to school at least until 8th/9th grade because:
1. its mandatory
2. Free food
3. Free baby sitter
4. Friends
5. Captive audience to sell drugs to (if they're in to that)

So, if we're going to talk stereotypes lets at least use somewhat realisitic ones.

Your problem is that you do not realize that it is you who does not recognize the cause of the problem. A person cannot cause their own problems. It is quite impossible. An infant does not create the enviornment that they are born in to. A child does not raise itself. If parents do not raise a child properly then it is not that childs fault it is on the parents. So, what you'll find is a long line of un or undereducated people who have not had opportunities. And it cant be blamed solely on them because at some point (a point not too long ago) they'd have been killed for trying to get an education and for thinking about any opportunities. And even those people who didnt have opportunities were able to survive without welfare and government assistance (not that they could've gotten it anyway). These people performed domestic and hard labor. The problem is that these days those jobs do not exist and the few that do pay so little that it is basically impossible for someone to survive on it. And the government today is willing to give money to people but it is still not willing to give opportunity. The government shouldn't stop giving money it should start giving opportunity.






Why do I feel like Huey in the Garden Party episode of Boondocks?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

I've only ever heard of mountain/trailer park people who are 21 with 5th grade educations. Hell ghetto people keep going to school at least until 8th/9th grade because:
1. its mandatory
2. Free food
3. Free baby sitter
4. Friends
5. Captive audience to sell drugs to (if they're in to that)

So, if we're going to talk stereotypes lets at least use somewhat realisitic ones.

Your problem is that you do not realize that it is you who does not recognize the cause of the problem. A person cannot cause their own problems. It is quite impossible. An infant does not create the enviornment that they are born in to. A child does not raise itself. If parents do not raise a child properly then it is not that childs fault it is on the parents. So, what you'll find is a long line of un or undereducated people who have not had opportunities. And it cant be blamed solely on them because at some point (a point not too long ago) they'd have been killed for trying to get an education and for thinking about any opportunities. And even those people who didnt have opportunities were able to survive without welfare and government assistance (not that they could've gotten it anyway). These people performed domestic and hard labor. The problem is that these days those jobs do not exist and the few that do pay so little that it is basically impossible for someone to survive on it. And the government today is willing to give money to people but it is still not willing to give opportunity. The government shouldn't stop giving money it should start giving opportunity.






Why do I feel like Huey in the Garden Party episode of Boondocks?

NOT SO LOUD !!!


You are gonna be called out for blaming


DA DA DAAA DUUMMMMM


Da man....heh!

And altho the article addressed Blacks in the inner city, I wonder how long it's going to take for him to get it into his thick skull that welfare is not just a stereotypical Black problem.

I guess the stats from the census website wasn't convincing.

"You can lead a horse to water..."

[madmax]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Your problem is that you do not realize that it is you who does not recognize the cause of the problem. A person cannot cause their own problems. It is quite impossible. An infant does not create the enviornment that they are born in to. A child does not raise itself. If parents do not raise a child properly then it is not that childs fault it is on the parents. So, what you'll find is a long line of un or undereducated people who have not had opportunities. And it cant be blamed solely on them because at some point (a point not too long ago) they'd have been killed for trying to get an education and for thinking about any opportunities. And even those people who didnt have opportunities were able to survive without welfare and government assistance (not that they could've gotten it anyway). These people performed domestic and hard labor. The problem is that these days those jobs do not exist and the few that do pay so little that it is basically impossible for someone to survive on it. And the government today is willing to give money to people but it is still not willing to give opportunity. The government shouldn't stop giving money it should start giving opportunity.

Typical socialist BS.

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

"A person cannot cause their own problems."

Does that mean a person is not responsible for their own success also?

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

If parents do not raise a child properly then it is not that childs fault it is on the parents.

So you admit that it is the parent's fault?

Originally Posted by madmax

The parents are idiots and they don't value education. Welfare recipients are like Dallas Cowboys fans, they are the result of bad parenting.
.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

HOW would you go about getting those millions on their feet to be productive Americans since you have effectively made a population of people homeless?

What program would you put in place to make sure these people you kicked off of welfare got adequate house?

What would you do to make sure these people you just kicked off of welfare got a job so they don't take from us tax paying citizens?

What program would you put into place to make sure these people you just kicked off of welfare got adequate mental and physical treatment for drug abuse, poor health habits, and adequate care for children and babies?

How much would you be willing to spend on these programs to ensure anarchy wouldn't come about after you just kicked all of these people off of welfare?

But most importantly since you made a few million of these American citizens homeless where would you be willing to relocate them and at what cost? Who would be responsible for paying for that. Hey, you just displaced these people and I will not let you use my tax dollars to do so, so Mr I Just Kicked All of These Mofos Off of Welfare, what do you do?

I bet you can't answer any of these can you?

I say we do nothing, whatever happened to the idea of taking care of yourself? If this was 200 or more years ago the laziness and ineptness of these people would have killed them off, yet we feel that it's our social responsibility to weaken the human gene pool by allowing them to leech off the people that actually want to make a better life for themselves. Just let Darwinism play out and see who makes it.




Just
kidding

The way i see it is:
I don't see it (testing)as necessarily singling anybody out. Government employees are required to take random drug tests; welfare recepients are on a Government payroll so....WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?

This may be the catalyst to get hundreds or thousands of addicts and abusers the motivation and strength to quit and better the health and lives of them and their family. For sure there will be problems, like everything in life, but honestly I'm not expecting to see any real changes in welfare anytime soon. IT's just one of those topics/policies that causes too much controversy when brought up.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I say we do nothing, whatever happened to the idea of taking care of yourself? If this was 200 or more years ago the laziness and ineptness of these people would have killed them off, yet we feel that it's our social responsibility to weaken the human gene pool by allowing them to leech off the people that actually want to make a better life for themselves. Just let Darwinism play out and see who makes it.

Just
kidding

.

I agree and I am not kidding.