Obama's Rhetoric is the Real Catastrophe

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

I think it's a mixture of both but the McCain campaign did hang her out to dry.

Ultimately, because they chose her as his running-mate, it was their responsibility to ensure that she was well prepared for every interview and that the toe the line as far as what to say and what not to say.

Obama's people even had trouble with Biden, but it didn't seem like they had as much trouble as McCain's people.

Sometimes I get the feeling they prepped her but she ended up trying to do her own thing.

On what may be a random note, I actually felt sorry for Palin at times. Mind you I didn't care for her as a VP pick. What I didn't like about the way the McCain campaign handled her was that they never really meant for her to be a true partner. I think they wanted someone who was young and attractive and who would fade into the spotlight and not be in the way.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Sometimes I get the feeling they prepped her but she ended up trying to do her own thing.

On what may be a random note, I actually felt sorry for Palin at times. Mind you I didn't care for her as a VP pick. What I didn't like about the way the McCain campaign handled her was that they never really meant for her to be a true partner. I think they wanted someone who was young and attractive and who would fade into the spotlight and not be in the way.

I don't think anyone really picks a VP as a true partner. They pick to complement strengths and weaknesses, but not for an equal run.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I don't think anyone really picks a VP as a true partner. They pick to complement strengths and weaknesses, but not for an equal run.

I mean someone who they expect to have an active role. Obama expects Biden to have an active role. I think the McCain campaign just wanted to use Palin to get to the White House and then I think they were going to try to keep her out of the way and shut her up, leaving her out of key decisions that would normally involve the VP.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I mean someone who they expect to have an active role. Obama expects Biden to have an active role. I think the McCain campaign just wanted to use Palin to get to the White House and then I think they were going to try to keep her out of the way and shut her up, leaving her out of key decisions that would normally involve the VP.

Really? What is it?

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Really? What is it?

I think Obama expects to have Biden's input on major decisions. Obama doesn't strike me as the type to just ignore his VP and leave him out in the cold the way I think McCain would have done Palin.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I think Obama expects to have Biden's input on major decisions. Obama doesn't strike me as the type to just ignore his VP and leave him out in the cold the way I think McCain would have done Palin.

So his role boils down to your assessment of Obama's character?

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

So his role boils down to your assessment of Obama's character?

Maybe

[agzg]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Sometimes I get the feeling they prepped her but she ended up trying to do her own thing.

On what may be a random note, I actually felt sorry for Palin at times. Mind you I didn't care for her as a VP pick. What I didn't like about the way the McCain campaign handled her was that they never really meant for her to be a true partner. I think they wanted someone who was young and attractive and who would fade into the spotlight and not be in the way.

Unfortunately it cost them votes. I was planning on voting for McCain before the hijinks that ensued after the GOP convention.

Not to say that went for all of his voters, however. Many voted for McCain because of Palin. Many voted for McCain in spite of Palin.

Regardless, there's another thread about this topic.

Ultimately, since the stimulus bill has passed, we'll have to wait and see what the effects are. I wouldn't call this the Great Depression, but who knows where we'll bottom out if we haven't already.

I do know it's ridiculously hard to find a job right now.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

Unfortunately it cost them votes. I was planning on voting for McCain before the hijinks that ensued after the GOP convention.

Not to say that went for all of his voters, however. Many voted for McCain because of Palin. Many voted for McCain in spite of Palin.

Regardless, there's another thread about this topic.

Ultimately, since the stimulus bill has passed, we'll have to wait and see what the effects are. I wouldn't call this the Great Depression, but who knows where we'll bottom out if we haven't already.

I do know it's ridiculously hard to find a job right now.

It's interesting hearing your point of view on the matter. I know some people who were going to vote for McCain but changed their mind when Palin was selected. I can't even imagine what McCain must be feeling right now. I'm sure he's kicking himself. They picked Palin to get the female vote, Obama didn't do the same, and now he's the one in the White House.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

It's interesting hearing your point of view on the matter. I know some people who were going to vote for McCain but changed their mind when Palin was selected. I can't even imagine what McCain must be feeling right now. I'm sure he's kicking himself. They picked Palin to get the female vote, Obama didn't do the same, and now he's the one in the White House.

If they picked her for the female vote they failed miserably.

It's debatable why he picked her. Many think it was an effort to consolidate the conservative republican base, since oftentimes McCain is characterized as too moderate or liberal. I would think this is more likely.

If that is the case then they didn't fail as miserably as they did if they picked her for the female vote.

After all, it's not like this was a landslide election for Obama. It was a pretty hard fought battle. So to say that Palin hurt McCain that badly would mean the same as saying that McCain would have had the election in the bag had he not picked Palin.

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that in my case, Palin tipped it. Not so for live-in, he was always an Obama supporter. Also not so for a lot of the people I know who would traditionally vote republican who voted for Obama this year.

My dad's been a republican for 40 years. This was his first time voting for a Democrat. I can tell you he didn't give a flying fig about Sarah Palin, or Joe Biden for that matter.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

If they picked her for the female vote they failed miserably.

It's debatable why he picked her. Many think it was an effort to consolidate the conservative republican base, since oftentimes McCain is characterized as too moderate or liberal. I would think this is more likely.

If that is the case then they didn't fail as miserably as they did if they picked her for the female vote.

After all, it's not like this was a landslide election for Obama. It was a pretty hard fought battle. So to say that Palin hurt McCain that badly would mean the same as saying that McCain would have had the election in the bag had he not picked Palin.


My dad's been a republican for 40 years. This was his first time voting for a Democrat. I can tell you he didn't give a flying fig about Sarah Palin, or Joe Biden for that matter.

Many people speculated that he brought Palin on board as a way of pulling in the Hillary Clinton supporters once she did not win the nomination.
As much as I like Obama, deep down I think McCain would have won if he had chosen Mitt Romney, or even that other female Republican (sorry, can't remember her name right now..I think she may be a governor).

I'm curious though as to what made your dad change? I know you said he didn't give a flying fig about Palin...so was that his main reasoning?

[agzg]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Many people speculated that he brought Palin on board as a way of pulling in the Hillary Clinton supporters once she did not win the nomination.
As much as I like Obama, deep down I think McCain would have won if he had chosen Mitt Romney, or even that other female Republican (sorry, can't remember her name right now..I think she may be a governor).

I'm curious though as to what made your dad change? I know you said he didn't give a flying fig about Palin...so was that his main reasoning?

On my dad, besides the actual issues and who lined up where with his changing views (retirement really has changed him a lot!), he thought McCain was A. Too old, and B. Looked like a pervy old man. LOL.

If female voters really went over to McCain when he chose Palin, that shows that those female voters really don't care about the issues. At all. Because Palin and Clinton are on starkly opposite ends of the political spectrum.

And anyone with half a brain who cares to look can see that.

I'm telling you, political commentators are often not worth their salt. McCain's people are not that stupid, and they don't think voters are that stupid. More likely, it was because she's conservative. The fact that she had a vagina and is hot were a plus.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

On my dad, besides the actual issues and who lined up where with his changing views (retirement really has changed him a lot!), he thought McCain was A. Too old, and B. Looked like a pervy old man. LOL.


I'm telling you, political commentators are often not worth their salt. McCain's people are not that stupid, and they don't think voters are that stupid. More likely, it was because she's conservative. The fact that she had a vagina and is hot were a plus.

LMAO at pervy old man. I didn't think he looked like a perv. I just thought he looked...embalmed.

I got sick of hearing about Palin fulfilling the "naughty librarian" stereotype for some men. As in she takes her hair down, shakes it, removes the glasses, and gives a BJ in the library stacks.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Many people speculated that he brought Palin on board as a way of pulling in the Hillary Clinton supporters once she did not win the nomination.

I think you're probably at least partially right, but it seems like there was at least a little more strategy involved. This view ("bringin' in the womens" as it were) was popular speculation at the time, but as inept as McCain's camp was in the "small-picture" stuff, I'd be shocked if they made this poor of a "big-picture" maneuver - it seems much more likely that Palin was intended to motivate the base with someone who could play both "attack dog" and "snake charmer" while McCain reached across the aisle for moderates. Sort of a "good cop/bad cop" thing, with the added bonus that the bad cop would be what most "common" American males would consider attractive. Remember: attractiveness matters.

It seems like this plan was not so much ill-conceived as ill-executed, since Palin went absolutely balls-to-the-wall beyond what I think McCain envisioned (and the Newsweek piece seems to back this up). She got off the leash, as far as what the McCain camp expected.

The thing is, as insane as this plan sounds in retrospect, it appeared to work for a brief moment - McCain's post-convention bump was large and quite real, and seemed to portend good things. However, once the buzz died down and the questions grew louder, Palin simply couldn't keep the ball rolling, and McCain's guys saw the writing on the wall and bailed.

It probably wouldn't have mattered, given the state of the economy at the time, but it sure would have helped to bring in someone (ANYONE) with real economic experience (like, as you noted, Romney).

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I think you're probably at least partially right, but it seems like there was at least a little more strategy involved. This view ("bringin' in the womens" as it were) was popular speculation at the time, but as inept as McCain's camp was in the "small-picture" stuff, I'd be shocked if they made this poor of a "big-picture" maneuver - it seems much more likely that Palin was intended to motivate the base with someone who could play both "attack dog" and "snake charmer" while McCain reached across the aisle for moderates. Sort of a "good cop/bad cop" thing, with the added bonus that the bad cop would be what most "common" American males would consider attractive. Remember: attractiveness matters.

It seems like this plan was not so much ill-conceived as ill-executed, since Palin went absolutely balls-to-the-wall beyond what I think McCain envisioned (and the Newsweek piece seems to back this up). She got off the leash, as far as what the McCain camp expected.

The thing is, as insane as this plan sounds in retrospect, it appeared to work for a brief moment - McCain's post-convention bump was large and quite real, and seemed to portend good things. However, once the buzz died down and the questions grew louder, Palin simply couldn't keep the ball rolling, and McCain's guys saw the writing on the wall and bailed.

It probably wouldn't have mattered, given the state of the economy at the time, but it sure would have helped to bring in someone (ANYONE) with real economic experience (like, as you noted, Romney).

I agree.
As inane as it sounds, I also think McCain was going for the historical factor too...first female VP and all. That certainly seemed to get people revved up.