Obama's Rhetoric is the Real Catastrophe

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I found it neither funny nor offensive. It would have "worked" better if there had been a typewriter in the background. I think it was related to the infinite monkey theorem.

This.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I found it neither funny nor offensive. It would have "worked" better if there had been a typewriter in the background. I think it was related to the infinite monkey theorem.

I can't subscribe to that theory for 2 reasons:

1. The already mentioned history of the relationship with Blacks and monkeys as a historical context in this country

2. The closeness of the related events surrounding the creation of the cartoon.

If the chimpanzee wasn't shot then the theory would have a 1/2 a chance of standing...but...you still have #1 to contend with in relation to the POTUS who signed the bill.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I can't subscribe to that theory for 2 reasons:

1. The already mentioned history of the relationship with Blacks and monkeys as a historical context in this country

2. The closeness of the related events surrounding the creation of the cartoon.

If the chimpanzee wasn't shot then the theory would have a 1/2 a chance of standing...but...you still have #1 to contend with in relation to the POTUS who signed the bill.

Yeah, I don't think so. I think it's a random monkeys typing PLUS deranged chimp attack this week rather than any attempt at an Obama/Monkey connection.

Are you basically saying that you don't think anyone can make any monkey-based jokes for the next four years despite all the Chimpy McHitler references about Bush?

I don't think I've ever made a monkey joke about the presidency so it won't really be a hardship for me. I just think you might be making more a sweeping condemnation than makes sense.

ETA: Maybe I went astray here by saying that I never made monkey jokes about the presidency. I didn't mean about just the presidency in my question. Are basically any monkey/chimp jokes/references just off the table?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Yeah, I don't think so. I think it's a random monkeys typing PLUS deranged chimp attack this week rather than any attempt at an Obama/Monkey connection.

Are you basically saying that you don't think anyone can make any monkey-based jokes for the next four years despite all the Chimpy McHitler references about Bush?

I don't think I've ever made a monkey joke about the presidency so it won't really be a hardship for me. I just think you might be making more a sweeping condemnation than makes sense.

Of course you would see it that way...but then having a general idea of the general make up of most of the folks here, my opinions on this would seem 'foreign' to most.


As far as your question, sure, they can make all the remarks they want just as long as they are prepared for any repercussions that comes from said remarks...again, scroll up and check some of the links from incidents that happened last year along the campaign trail when people did and made similar remarks and tried to play it off.


IMO This is a direct insult to African Americans. The references of us to monkeys has been synonymous for years but too many of us sweep stuff under the carpet or give it a different label so that we don't have to face the harsh reality. It is concerning for any one regardless of race, creed or religion to by into this type of hatred wrapped in satire. We may have come a long way but we still have so much longer to go.

Too many people have fought and died to simply let things like this 'slide' or 'pass' and it would be irresponsible to do so.

4 years? It's insulting to reference ANYONE Black from the President down to the janitor that does your floors on the same level as a monkey.
100, hell, 50 years ago, if anyone spoke out against this at the very least was jailed or at the very worst beaten or killed...so ok, if he wants to exercise his 1st Amendment right to draw it, I will do the same and call it garbage.

To put this in perspective, UGA, this ranks right up there with the Don Imus 'nappy headed hos' comment.

ETA: I bet none of you caught the tribute to Vick in the pic either.

[DaemonSeid]

The following letter was sent to the NY Post from the New York Assn of Black Journalists:

It amazes us that in the year 2009, in what was supposed to be the beginning of a new era of race relations, a picture could get past editors to disgrace the pages of a major metropolitan newspaper, during Black History month nonetheless.

We, at the New York Association of Black Journalists, take offense to the New York Post cartoon depiction of two officers shooting a monkey and then saying, "They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill" The history attached to racial slurs connecting people of color to monkeys isn't new. In fact, the issue was brought up during the Obama campaign and clearly characterized by him as offensive. Yes, it is true that former President George Bush was often depicted as a monkey, but historical context is what makes this different.

How do you think the Jewish community would feel about the use of rats in any depiction of them? How do you think the Italian community would feel about being generalized with mobsters? Monkey slurs against Africans and African Americans go back to the days of early colonialism, when Anglo Saxon, Spanish and Portuguese conquerors used these types of drawings and descriptions to dehumanize black people so that their mistreatment and enslavement would not be viewed as wrong or sinful. The practice also took on more sinister roles later in history including during the slave trade here in the U.S. and in Hitler's Nazi Germany.

We, at NYABJ, demand both an explanation and an apology from Sean Delonas of the New York Post. We find it unconscionable that such a depiction, especially during this time, would be used in an attempt at humor or political satire. Would it be a leap to suggest that it is funny or ok to shoot the President, if this is who the chimp in the drawing is suppose to represent? We are not laughing.

We often hear Elinor Tatum, publisher of the NY Amsterdam News and Chair of the NABJ black media committee, say that incidents like this "underscore the need for more black-owned media in this country, to counteract the actions and insensitivities of right-wing or even so called mainstream media outlets." We could not agree more. Shame on Mr. Delonas and shame on Mr. Rupert Murdoch who has allowed something like this to happen.

Gary Anthony Ramsay
NYABJ President

Zachary Dowdy
NYABJ VP-Print

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Of course you would see it that way...but then having a general idea of the general make up of most of the folks here, my opinions on this would seem 'foreign' to most.


As far as your question, sure, they can make all the remarks they want just as long as they are prepared for any repercussions that comes from said remarks...again, scroll up and check some of the links from incidents that happened last year along the campaign trail when people did and made similar remarks and tried to play it off.


IMO This is a direct insult to African Americans. The references of us to monkeys has been synonymous for years but too many of us sweep stuff under the carpet or give it a different label so that we don't have to face the harsh reality. It is concerning for any one regardless of race, creed or religion to by into this type of hatred wrapped in satire. We may have come a long way but we still have so much longer to go.

Too many people have fought and died to simply let things like this 'slide' or 'pass' and it would be irresponsible to do so.

4 years? It's insulting to reference ANYONE Black from the President down to the janitor that does your floors on the same level as a monkey.
100, hell, 50 years ago, if anyone spoke out against this at the very least was jailed or at the very worst beaten or killed...so ok, if he wants to exercise his 1st Amendment right to draw it, I will do the same and call it garbage.

To put this in perspective, UGA, this ranks right up there with the Don Imus 'nappy headed hos' comment.

ETA: I bet none of you caught the tribute to Vick in the pic either.

I see your point; but you really have to drop the Vick references in your arguments. You probably have a million better drop-ins than a guy who committed a felony and was imprisoned for it, and it takes away from the point of your posts.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Yeah, I don't think so. I think it's a random monkeys typing PLUS deranged chimp attack this week rather than any attempt at an Obama/Monkey connection.

Are you basically saying that you don't think anyone can make any monkey-based jokes for the next four years despite all the Chimpy McHitler references about Bush?

I don't think I've ever made a monkey joke about the presidency so it won't really be a hardship for me. I just think you might be making more a sweeping condemnation than makes sense.

I think it would be gravely unwise to compare any black person to a monkey regardless of whether it's Barack Obama. It is still used as an insult among racists and still has some resonance among black people who choose to educate themselves (or are educated) about the history of racism in America.

I don't, however, believe that was the intent of the satire. So I agree with you, just for different reasons.

(I also thought Hitler/Bush references were generally uncalled for but that Bush/chimp references were funny)

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

The following letter was sent to the NY Post from the New York Assn of Black Journalists:

It amazes us that in the year 2009, in what was supposed to be the beginning of a new era of race relations, a picture could get past editors to disgrace the pages of a major metropolitan newspaper, during Black History month nonetheless.

We, at the New York Association of Black Journalists, take offense to the New York Post cartoon depiction of two officers shooting a monkey and then saying, "They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill" The history attached to racial slurs connecting people of color to monkeys isn't new. In fact, the issue was brought up during the Obama campaign and clearly characterized by him as offensive. Yes, it is true that former President George Bush was often depicted as a monkey, but historical context is what makes this different.

How do you think the Jewish community would feel about the use of rats in any depiction of them? How do you think the Italian community would feel about being generalized with mobsters? Monkey slurs against Africans and African Americans go back to the days of early colonialism, when Anglo Saxon, Spanish and Portuguese conquerors used these types of drawings and descriptions to dehumanize black people so that their mistreatment and enslavement would not be viewed as wrong or sinful. The practice also took on more sinister roles later in history including during the slave trade here in the U.S. and in Hitler's Nazi Germany.

We, at NYABJ, demand both an explanation and an apology from Sean Delonas of the New York Post. We find it unconscionable that such a depiction, especially during this time, would be used in an attempt at humor or political satire. Would it be a leap to suggest that it is funny or ok to shoot the President, if this is who the chimp in the drawing is suppose to represent? We are not laughing.

We often hear Elinor Tatum, publisher of the NY Amsterdam News and Chair of the NABJ black media committee, say that incidents like this "underscore the need for more black-owned media in this country, to counteract the actions and insensitivities of right-wing or even so called mainstream media outlets." We could not agree more. Shame on Mr. Delonas and shame on Mr. Rupert Murdoch who has allowed something like this to happen.

Gary Anthony Ramsay
NYABJ President

Zachary Dowdy
NYABJ VP-Print

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I see your point; but you really have to drop the Vick references in your arguments. You probably have a million better drop-ins than a guy who committed a felony and was imprisoned for it, and it takes away from the point of your posts.

Go look at the picture.

Again you know...KNOW..I am no fan of Vick and what he did but there is an almost unnoticed swipe in the pic which does not fit at all.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Go look at the picture.

Again you know...KNOW..I am no fan of Vick and what he did but there is an almost unnoticed swipe in the pic which does not fit at all.

I did look at the picture.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I think it would be gravely unwise to compare any black person to a monkey regardless of whether it's Barack Obama. It is still used as an insult among racists and still has some resonance among black people who choose to educate themselves (or are educated) about the history of racism in America.

I don't, however, believe that was the intent of the satire. So I agree with you, just for different reasons.

(I also thought Hitler/Bush references were generally uncalled for but that Bush/chimp references were funny)

Oh, I agree that it's unwise to compare any black people with monkeys no matter what your intent because the assumption will be that you're making the racist association, but I don't think that's what was going on in the joke in the NYpost. I don't think the monkey/chimp/primate in the cartoon is supposed to be Obama in any way.

DaemonSeid seems to want to assume that any monkey reference (or actually chimp too) is about Obama even when it really probably isn't. And that's why I'm basically asking him if he thinks that we just forgo any humor with monkey/chimps whatever as long Obama is president, even if the jokes aren't about Obama.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Oh, I agree that it's unwise to compare any black people with monkeys no matter what your intent because the assumption will be that you're making the racist association, but I don't think that's what was going on in the joke in the NYpost. I don't think the monkey/chimp/primate in the cartoon is supposed to be Obama in any way.

DaemonSeid seems to want to assume that any monkey reference (or actually chimp too) is about Obama even when it really probably isn't. And that's why I'm basically asking him if he thinks that we just forgo any humor with monkey/chimps whatever as long Obama is president, even if the jokes aren't about Obama.

You know people aren't stupid right?

You did go back and see the links I posted that shows clearly this isn't the first time the reference was made.


You did see the letter I posted here from the New York Assoc of Black Journalists.

Clearly they don't believe that should be allowed to slide.

I don't know...maybe they see the same thing I am seeing so...tell ya what...

Since you disagree, then make a clear argument that the cartoon is NO WAY portrays Obama as a stereotypical primate.

[AKA_Monet]

[hijack]

I am still stuck on that cocked eyed young guy on Lou Dobbs today...

[/end hijack]

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

[hijack]

I am still stuck on that cocked eyed young guy on Lou Dobbs today...

[/end hijack]

damn...so wrong.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

You know people aren't stupid right?

You did go back and see the links I posted that shows clearly this isn't the first time the reference was made.


You did see the letter I posted here from the New York Assoc of Black Journalists.

Clearly they don't believe that should be allowed to slide.

I don't know...maybe they see the same thing I am seeing so...tell ya what...

Since you disagree, then make a clear argument that the cartoon is NO WAY portrays Obama as a stereotypical primate.

The monkey isn't supposed to refer to Obama.

Here's the joke: The stimulus bill is a very long bill and no one seems totally sure exactly what's in it . There's a saying about if enough monkeys typed long enough they'd eventually compose any given text, here the stimulus bill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem The bill is regarded by many as out of control.

There was also a chimp that attacked a woman and had to be shot by animal control. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...YnNMu17G6hMP4g

While it is known that Obama wanted the stimulus passed, it's pretty clear he didn't write it. I don't think anyone ever talked about him being involved in writing either the house or the senate version. Why would we assume the chimp/monkey in the image is supposed to be Obama?

Is your argument that Obama is black and ALL monkeys in cartoons are used to attack black people?

Sometimes a monkey is just a monkey.