Can class be learned?

[srmom]

Might I suggest reviewing Rudyard Kipling's "If", another great example of "class", IMHO.

Great that you mentioned that poem. And thanks Mystic Cat for reprinting it.

At the boys camp that my kids have gone to during their entire youth, this poem was read over the loud speaker every night at bed time. Hopefully, a little rubbed off over the years!

The conclusion page of their website:

http://www.lajunta.com/clj/conclusion.htm

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by srmom

At the boys camp that my kids have gone to during their entire youth, this poem was read over the loud speaker every night at bed time. Hopefully, a little rubbed off over the years!

The conclusion page of their website:

http://www.lajunta.com/clj/conclusion.htm

I really like that (and wish we lived closer to that camp.) And glad you liked the poem, jojapeach.

Okay, I'm getting carried away, but what with Burns Night having been this past Sunday, what should pop up on my iPod at lunch but one of my other favorite poems/songs on this topic of class/character: "Is There for Honest Poverty," better known as "A Man's A Man For A' That." (Aye, I'm enough of a Scots-geek that I have Rabbie Burns songs on my iPod.) This was sung at the State Opening of the Scottish Parliament, with Her Grace Elizabeth, Queen of Scots (aka Her Majesty the Queen), The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh and His Royal Highness The Duke of Rothesay (aka The Prince Charles, Prince of Wales) all in attendance. (Click here to see a nice video of it -- look for Sean Connery.) The cameras didn't show if the royals joined the Parliament in singing the final verse, but I'd like to think that they did.

To try and tie this all a wee bit to Greekdom, Burns (like Kipling, for that matter) was a Freemason, and masonic values clearly influenced the philosophy that underlies the poem.

Is there for honest Poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave-we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd for a' that.

What though on hamely fare we dine,
Wear hoddin grey, an' a that;
Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
A Man's a Man for a' that:
For a' that, and a' that,
Their tinsel show, an' a' that;
The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,
Is king o' men for a' that.

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord,
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a cuif for a' that:
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's aboon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that.

(If you need a translation from Scots into English, you can find it here. One term I'll point out -- by "coward slave," Burns meant those who allowed themselves to be treated as inferiors rather than equals of the higher classes.)

Okay, no more poems from me today.

[PhoenixAzul]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I really like that (and wish we lived closer to that camp.) And glad you liked the poem, jojapeach.

Okay, I'm getting carried away, but what with Burns Night having been this past Sunday, what should pop up on my iPod at lunch but one of my other favorite poems/songs on this topic of class/character: "Is There for Honest Poverty," better known as "A Man's A Man For A' That." (Aye, I'm enough of a Scots-geek that I have Rabbie Burns songs on my iPod.) This was sung at the State Opening of the Scottish Parliament, with Her Grace Elizabeth, Queen of Scots (aka Her Majesty the Queen), The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh and His Royal Highness The Duke of Rothesay (aka The Prince Charles, Prince of Wales) all in attendance. (Click here to see a nice video of it -- look for Sean Connery.) The cameras didn't show if the royals joined the Parliament in singing the final verse, but I'd like to think that they did.

To try and tie this all a wee bit to Greekdom, Burns (like Kipling, for that matter) was a Freemason, and masonic values clearly influenced the philosophy that underlies the poem.

Is there for honest Poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave-we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd for a' that.

What though on hamely fare we dine,
Wear hoddin grey, an' a that;
Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
A Man's a Man for a' that:
For a' that, and a' that,
Their tinsel show, an' a' that;
The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,
Is king o' men for a' that.

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord,
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a cuif for a' that:
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's aboon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that.

(If you need a translation from Scots into English, you can find it here. One term I'll point out -- by "coward slave," Burns meant those who allowed themselves to be treated as inferiors rather than equals of the higher classes.)

Okay, no more poems from me today.

hehe,
"Fair fie ye honest sonsie face...

Hope you had a great Burns Night. I couldn't get a haggis imported in time/legally, so we just had neeps and tatties and cockaleekie soup. mmm.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PhoenixAzul

hehe,
"Fair fie ye honest sonsie face...

Hope you had a great Burns Night. I couldn't get a haggis imported in time/legally, so we just had neeps and tatties and cockaleekie soup. mmm.

You did better than I did, I'm afraid. We had symphony tickets for Sunday and couldn't do a Burns Supper in addition, nor had I gotten a haggis. I had to content myself with simple porridge -- I haven't even had time lately to make oatcakes, shortbread or any of my other standard Scots fare.

[carnation]

I just came across this thread and I love it! I want all my students to read it!

(Mystic Cat, one of my son-in-law is from Scotland. He keeps threatening to bring us a haggis and we fear that he'll do just that after his visit home next month.)

[honeychile]

I'm not sure how I missed this thread, but it seems to be one that most certainly NOT be missed! Thank you, carnation, for the bump.

My Jamestown cousin is the epitome of class and character, and I am proudly one of the earlier members of his GC fanclub!

[DZ_Turtle86]

There are so many threads that I wish had a "Where are they now?" conclusion.