MTV's Engaged & Underage

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by WVU alpha phi

...but I think marriage should be a happy occassion. I don't want to get married while my parents are devastated by my choice!

You can only control yourself. You can't control how other people feel about what you're doing. While some of these kids might be doing things that are detrimental to their futures, their concern can't primarily be not devastating their parents.

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

You can only control yourself. You can't control how other people feel about what you're doing. While some of these kids might be doing things that are detrimental to their futures, their concern can't primarily be not devastating their parents.

Yes and no. Personally, because family is important to me and I need their support, I can't see myself committing to a man that my family hates. It's hard enough to get married young, but to alienate a family? It has to be a lot harder without support from your family.

Sometimes parents are concerned because the potential spouse is abusive in some way, has some serious issues (drug, gambling, alcohol addictions), is super selfish (the kind that sits at home while the other partner works their butt off), or they are rude to the future in-laws (which to me is a deal breaker...I'd never look twice at a Spencer...if they can't be respectful to my parents then they can't be respectful to me).

Of course in some cases I think parents cannot be pleased. If my parents, for instance, disapproved because my fiancee was a different race, I would decide they would have to live with my decision. That's their prerogative, not mine (though fortunately I don't think I'll run into that particular obstacle). And some parents can't be pleased no matter what...they just aren't ready for their baby to get married. In that case...good luck.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

...the potential spouse is abusive in some way, has some serious issues (drug, gambling, alcohol addictions), is super selfish (the kind that sits at home while the other partner works their butt off), or they are rude to the future in-laws (which to me is a deal breaker...I'd never look twice at a Spencer...if they can't be respectful to my parents then they can't be respectful to me).

Right - so, this issue is still not one for the family. It's something that the abused spouse would need to come to terms with. We don't need to concern ourselves with whether our actions please our families if we are really making healthy choices. If we aren't making healthy choices, pleasing or displeasing our families shouldn't be a priority. The priority should be figuring out what our issues are.

[WVU alpha phi]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

You can only control yourself. You can't control how other people feel about what you're doing. While some of these kids might be doing things that are detrimental to their futures, their concern can't primarily be not devastating their parents.

True, but family is important to me and I can't imagine marrying a man my parents disapprove of. Or entering marriage knowing my family is disappointed. I mean, a lot of these moms are crying on the show when they talk about their kids getting married. I want my mom to be happy and excited and involved in planning (to an extent ).

I guess as I get older I just have more respect for my parents and their wishes for me, and their values have rubbed off on me. I refuse to live with a guy I'm dating unless we're married. I was raised that way and even though I'm completely independent from my parents, I know it would devastate them if I moved in with my boyfriend or fiance. I know a lot of people don't feel like that way and that's fine, it's just a personal choice for me for several reasons.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by WVU alpha phi

True, but family is important to me and I can't imagine marrying a man my parents disapprove of. Or entering marriage knowing my family is disappointed.

What happens if the only reason your parents disapproved was because of his color? Would you not marry him?

I know that a lot of my family would disapprove of me marrying a non-Hispanic man. And as much as my family is important to me, that is one area where I will not listen to them. I will not let their ignorance hinder my love.

[WVU alpha phi]

Originally Posted by epchick

What happens if the only reason your parents disapproved was because of his color? Would you not marry him?

I know that a lot of my family would disapprove of me marrying a non-Hispanic man. And as much as my family is important to me, that is one area where I will not listen to them. I will not let their ignorance hinder my love.

I hope this isn't opening up a whole new can of worms, but I was raised with my family's beliefs, so this wouldn't be an option for me.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by WVU alpha phi

I hope this isn't opening up a whole new can of worms, but I was raised with my family's beliefs, so this wouldn't be an option for me.

Probably no can of worms. It's just really, really sad that you bought into that.

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Right - so, this issue is still not one for the family. It's something that the abused spouse would need to come to terms with. We don't need to concern ourselves with whether our actions please our families if we are really making healthy choices. If we aren't making healthy choices, pleasing or displeasing our families shouldn't be a priority. The priority should be figuring out what our issues are.

Don't insist that everyone subscribe to YOUR system of beliefs. Everyone has a different relationship with their family. Maybe to you, they are not so important in the scheme of things. To me, they are. And sometimes they do know best. I believe there is a way to have them and me be happy...that's important to me, and obviously not to you, but don't be offensive about it.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

Don't insist that everyone subscribe to YOUR system of beliefs. Everyone has a different relationship with their family. Maybe to you, they are not so important in the scheme of things. To me, they are. And sometimes they do know best. I believe there is a way to have them and me be happy...that's important to me, and obviously not to you, but don't be offensive about it.

Slow your roll, little girl. What was offensive about what I said and where am I insisting that "everyone subscribe to [MY] system of beliefs"?

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Slow your roll, little girl. What was offensive about what I said and where am I insisting that "everyone subscribe to [MY] system of beliefs"?

"Little girl"? My we're feeling important today.

"We don't need to concern ourselves with whether our actions please our families if we are really making healthy choices. If we aren't making healthy choices, pleasing or displeasing our families shouldn't be a priority. The priority should be figuring out what our issues are."

"You can only control yourself. You can't control how other people feel about what you're doing. While some of these kids might be doing things that are detrimental to their futures, their concern can't primarily be not devastating their parents."

"Probably no can of worms. It's just really, really sad that you bought into that."

Now, big girl, I bolded the parts that are relevant. First it's "we" and "our", directly implying that "your" beliefs are what "we" should all do. Then it's "you", as in "you should be doing this" and then there's the condescending remark to someone about their relationship with their family.

That's their business. We all have different opinions and beliefs, but we all have different opinions and beliefs.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

We all have different opinions and beliefs

Exactly. So what's your point?

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Exactly. So what's your point?

If big girl doesn't get it from what I wrote, big girl obviously isn't able to understand.

Let's put it this way...why I say YOU shouldn't think this way or say these things and YOU should think the way I do...how do you interpret that?

And if you, say, subscribe to a certain religion and I say something like "how sad that you buy into that", what would you think?

It's one thing to disagree and offer your own opinion but to tell someone else they should do things the way you would do them is presumptuous.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

If big girl doesn't get it from what I wrote, big girl obviously isn't able to understand.

Let's put it this way...why I say YOU shouldn't think this way or say these things and YOU should think the way I do...how do you interpret that?

And if you, say, subscribe to a certain religion and I say something like "how sad that you buy into that", what would you think?

General "we" and general "you." I wasn't talking to you in particular. Buying into racism is far from subscribing to a religion.

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

General "we" and general "you." I wasn't talking to you in particular. Buying into racism is far from subscribing to a religion.

She did not say she was racist. She did say that her relationship with her family is more important to her than who she marries. It is not ok to treat someone differently, either better or worse, for their religion, ethnic group, gender, sex, etc. It is not ok for a family to treat their child's significant other badly because of any of those things. But it is ok to choose your mate based on those things. The person you spend the rest of your life with is obviously someone that is as compatible with you as possible. I've been broken up with before because a boy's family did not want him to marry a white girl, and he decided that his family was more important to him than me. I didn't have a problem with it. Personally I choose to date people of my own religion, because I want my husband to be of the same religion. My family would be very upset otherwise. It is absolutely ok to have an individual take on family relations and to pick someone with similar values/background/belief systems to date/marry.

Do you understand the problem? General "you" and "we" does not change the fact that the statements directly imply that everyone's familial relations should line up to yours. Most especially so in the last comment.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

Do you understand the problem? General "you" and "we" does not change the fact that the statements directly imply that everyone's familial relations should line up to yours. Most especially so in the last comment.

You just really need to get over it. You are taking offense to something that you shouldn't take offense to.

Nothing Jeni wrote implied that everyone should believe the way she does.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Buying into racism is far from subscribing to a religion.

I completely agree.