Recession? What recession? The Bushes Buy Fine China for almost 1/2 a mil.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DGTess

$.5M china
$9M vacation homes in hawaii.

change we can expect?

That's funny how you are trying to sit that one in Obama's lap...don't reach any further...you may fall over.

Read the Headline again...

THE BUSHES (not the Obamas) ARE PURCHASING NEW CHINA

Furthermore: The Obamas did not BUY nor OWN the 9 mil house they stayed in during the holidays

They RENTED it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28337617/

Let's try to keep our stories stright before we lie on ourselves

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Let's try to keep our stories stright before we lie on ourselves

And while we're at it, let's keep straight that none of the purchases mentioned in this thread were made with taxpayer funds.

I'm with KSigKid -- I'm not seeing the big deal.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And while we're at it, let's keep straight that none of the purchases mentioned in this thread were made with taxpayer funds.

I'm with KSigKid -- I'm not seeing the big deal.

Said that at the beginning...

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Said that at the beginning...

Did you say the "not a big deal" part, too?

Because you probably should have.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Did you say the "not a big deal" part, too?

Because you probably should have.

Eeehhh...but I didn't...that's what I have you for....whatever one misses...someone picks up.


Still, the timing is just...wrong.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Said that at the beginning...

I know. I was adding to your response to DGTess.

[deepimpact2]

The timing is terribly wrong. I don't care whose funds were used for the purchase. I also don't care about the fact that the china will be used to serve dignitaries and that it is a part of the historical legacy of the mansion.

I also don't buy the notion that the china belongs to all of us. Last I checked American citizens can barely get near the White House, let alone even VISIT it. How does the china belong to us?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I also don't buy the notion that the china belongs to all of us. Last I checked American citizens can barely get near the White House, let alone even VISIT it. How does the china belong to us?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/tours/

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/tours/

And your point in posting this is...

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

In fact I did NOT say that Americans CANNOT visit the White House. I said they BARELY can visit.S o he did not show that my statement was not accurate. He showed that he did not properly read and comprehend the sentence. There is a difference.

You said Americans "can barely get near the White House, let alone even VISIT it." The clear implication is that while we can "barely get near" the White House, it is next-to-impossible to visit it. I'll take your word as to what you meant, but what you said doesn't quite match up with what you meant. So apparently, it's not that KSig RC can't read and comprehend what you wrote; it's that you had some trouble writing in such a way as to convey what you actually meant.

And to be honest, I think you're way overstating the hoops that have to be jumped through to visit the White House. Having jumped through those hoops not that long ago, I can assure you it's really not that hard at all. You pretty much just call your Representative far enough in advance, let him or her know when you want to come, provide some basic background information and that's about it. Took one phone call.

As for whether the china "belongs to us" or not, it belongs to us all collectively, just like any other public property does.

As for the Obamas moving in, they receive a budget of $100,000 in public funds for redecorating. (Not that much in the grand scheme of things.) Anything spent beyond that will come from a foundation like the White House Historical Association (the foundation that paid for the new china).

I'm just still not seeing the big deal -- and as KSigKid says, I'm not a Bush supporter. I'm counting the minutes until he moves out of the White House. I just never saw the point of Bush-bashing purely for the sake of Bush-bashing either.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

You said Americans "can barely get near the White House, let alone even VISIT it." The clear implication is that while we can "barely get near" the White House, it is next-to-impossible to visit it. I'll take your word as to what you meant, but what you said doesn't quite match up with what you meant. So apparently, it's not that KSig RC can't read and comprehend what you wrote; it's that you had some trouble writing in such a way as to convey what you actually meant.

What I meant was quite clear. You just want to try to make the statement seem inaccurate. That's all. Realistically it takes more than a simple call to your Rep.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

The timing is terribly wrong. I don't care whose funds were used for the purchase. I also don't care about the fact that the china will be used to serve dignitaries and that it is a part of the historical legacy of the mansion.

I also don't buy the notion that the china belongs to all of us. Last I checked American citizens can barely get near the White House, let alone even VISIT it. How does the china belong to us?

I agree with DeepImpact. Eventhough the China is not paid for by the taxpayers it was still a senseless purchase. It makes no sense to purchase China for 1/2 a mil. when in two weeks the new first lady will be making another china purchase (because unless I'm misinformed each first lady gets to purchase china for the white house). I know it wont be in the first days that Mrs. Obama will make her china purchase, but it could be relatively soon and it will appear that our US leaders are just blowing money for no reason. In an economic crisis the Bush family is buying china? Really? Thats a great way to spark our economy. Is this china American made? (just wondering)

To hell with the historical legacy crap. Buying china is not the best way to enhance the historical legacy of the white house. I would have been more understanding if the Bushes purchased art of some kind. That is something that I would consider a legacy, but dinnerware? Nope. Its not like they dont already have china for dignitaries to eat from so what is the need for more? What dignitaries are they hosting over the next 14 days that they'll need china for?


DeepImpact2,
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but I thought that you meant that regular Americans couldn't visit the White House with the term visit meaning:
Go to the white house and have a meal using the expensive china.

In that sense Americans can barely visit the white house.
I do not consider something mine that I cannot use. If I jump through the necessary hoops I can go to the white house and view the china. That, in my opinion, does not make the china mine. That makes it someone elses china that I am going to see. Something cannot be considered "all of ours" if it can be used and only some of us can use it.

[SWTXBelle]

So, should the thousands of people who are spending what will be millions of dollars on transportation, hotels, clothing ,meals and tickets for the inauguration cancel because we are in a recession?

That would be the logical conclusion if we accept that unnecessary expenditures during a recession are bad.

Personally, I am happy for the boost to the Washington, D.C. economy. I also think that in the land of the free and the home of the brave if private citizens wish to donate funds to buy china that it is not newsworthy. Were public funds being used, yes, that would be wrong and newsworthy. I thought the same thing when it was reported that friends of the Clintons were buying expensive furnishings for them as they left office. What private citizens chose to do with their money is really not a concern of the public at large as long as no laws are broken.

As far as it being "our china" - it is ours in the sense that all of the exhibits at the Smithsonian are ours, that all of our national parks are ours, that the White House, whether you can go there or not, is ours. The china does not belong to an individual. It will be used at White House functions by the Obamas and future presidents when they entertain heads of state and foreign dignitaries in their role as the representatives of the American people. I do not know if all administrations buy china - I remember the Reagan china, but cannot recall if the Clintons or Bushes part I purchased any.

I'm not a lawyer or a law student, so hope my writing is clear enough for the GC crowd.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

I agree with DeepImpact. Eventhough the China is not paid for by the taxpayers it was still a senseless purchase. It makes no sense to purchase China for 1/2 a mil. when in two weeks the new first lady will be making another china purchase (because unless I'm misinformed each first lady gets to purchase china for the white house). I know it wont be in the first days that Mrs. Obama will make her china purchase, but it could be relatively soon and it will appear that our US leaders are just blowing money for no reason. In an economic crisis the Bush family is buying china? Really? Thats a great way to spark our economy. Is this china American made? (just wondering)

To hell with the historical legacy crap. Buying china is not the best way to enhance the historical legacy of the white house. I would have been more understanding if the Bushes purchased art of some kind. That is something that I would consider a legacy, but dinnerware? Nope. Its not like they dont already have china for dignitaries to eat from so what is the need for more? What dignitaries are they hosting over the next 14 days that they'll need china for?


DeepImpact2,
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but I thought that you meant that regular Americans couldn't visit the White House with the term visit meaning:
Go to the white house and have a meal using the expensive china.

In that sense Americans can barely visit the white house.
I do not consider something mine that I cannot use. If I jump through the necessary hoops I can go to the white house and view the china. That, in my opinion, does not make the china mine. That makes it someone elses china that I am going to see. Something cannot be considered "all of ours" if it can be used and only some of us can use it.

Well said!!!

I would also like to answer a question you asked. The question was what dignitaires are they hosting in the next 14 days that they will need china for. My answer is probably the very people who are occupying the Blair House and preventing the Obama's from moving in a little bit early. (Before anyone argues that no other president has done it, several media sources have reported that other presidents HAVE moved into the Blair House early.)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

To hell with the historical legacy crap. Buying china is not the best way to enhance the historical legacy of the white house. I would have been more understanding if the Bushes purchased art of some kind. That is something that I would consider a legacy, but dinnerware? Nope. Its not like they dont already have china for dignitaries to eat from so what is the need for more? What dignitaries are they hosting over the next 14 days that they'll need china for?

From The Washington Post:

White House china is displayed in many rooms of the house, and the designs and shapes reflect the style and food in vogue through 200 years of presidential families. There are the French porcelain oyster plates and bonbon stands of the Rutherford B. Hayes administration and the cocktail cups and oatmeal bowls of Woodrow Wilson.

"The china shows the taste of the day. It records history," White House social secretary Amy Zantzinger said.

The frequent entertaining at the White House takes its toll on the china, and breakage depletes the numbers over the years.

"Right now, we only have two complete sets of china we can use for a state dinner for 134: the Reagan and the Clinton services," Zantzinger said.

Mrs. Bush explained that up to now, presidential families have used the formal state services for their meals and entertaining in the upstairs private quarters. She said that she most frequently used the red Reagan china but that her husband is partial to the Johnson service, which Lady Bird Johnson designed to depict wildflowers from throughout the country. Now, Bush said, future first families will have the option of using the "more informal" set for lunches and small dinners.

. . .

The debut of the Bush china occurred at a small luncheon this week for U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

If your next door neighbor just got a new expensive couch (to add to the many he already has and you know that the person who is moving in after he leaves in 2 weeks is going to buy another) after he turned to you and asked you to sacrifice to help his friend pay for a huge mistake she made would you not question why he let someone buy him a Couch when he knew his friend needed help? Personally, he'd have to sell the Couch or make some type of personal sacrifice before he could step to me and ask for my dollars. I would question his discretion.

Your analogy is off in so many ways. To make it a bit more on target, my next door neighbor would have ordered that couch a few years ago, before any economic turndown. He didn't pay for it with his own money or with my money -- he paid for it with a gift of money that came with the stipulation that it can only be used for buying new furniture for the house. And while he has other couches already, they are not sufficient to meet the entertaining needs that everyone in the neighborhood expects him to fulfill on our behalf, which is one reason we've been letting him and his family live in the house to begin with.

The Bushes didn't just go to Ikea last week and buy new china. The process for designing and buying this china started years ago, and the reports all note that the new china had been expected to arrive long before now, but was delayed for a variety of reasons.

The money that was used to buy the china couldn't have been used for some other purpose, such as helping people who are having trouble paying mortgages. The money came from a foundation, which can only spend its funds on items related to the care, conservation, history and furnishing of the White House. So, there were three choices here: spend the money on china for the White House, spend the money on something else for the White House, or don't spend the money at all. They spent the money on china, putting a half-million dollars back into the economy that might not have been there otherwise.

Just not that big of a deal.