240,000 dollars awarded to man forced to cover Arab T-shirt

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

White people killed thousands of American Indians, clearly they should be scared of me wearing a shirt that has English writing into a reservation.

Your ancestors fucking WORKED WITH THE NAZIS. This is such an inane argument I can't believe we're having it.

My ancestors were Sicilian, not Italian.

And yes, had that happened right after the white people killed the Native Americans, hell yeah they should be scared. Should African Americans be scared if a skinhead came through their neighborhood? Should Jewish people be scared if a Nazi came through theirs?

Yes this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But oh well. Being attacked for my thoughts and beliefs is fun.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

.....and I'm sorry, call me racist but.....

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

.....So I choose not to answer you anymore.

....I'm sorry but that's the living truth and I'm not going to be ridiculed for stating my thoughts and feelings on it.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

But oh well. Being attacked for my thoughts and beliefs is fun.

Couple of things....

"Truth" and "fact" are not necessarily the same thing. One's "truth" can be absolutely ridiculous, and one can absolutely be expected to be ridiculed for it. Facts are not usually ridiculed, if you ask me.

Have you been attacked? I wouldn't say so -- I see a group of people who don't ordinarily agree with each other (or me) questioning your opinions. That happens to all of us every day on GC, no matter how hot some of us are.

I generally think you've said some pretty out there stuff, racially speaking, so this doesn't really surprise me that you would feel this way on this particular topic. But knowing how GC gets regarding these topics, maybe you want to craft your opinions in such a way that they come across as more intellectual than emotional.

I'm not saying that you sound stupid or emotional, but it just doesn't seem that your concerns are coming from a place that many people who have replied already can relate to.

Not that you're here to make friends or have people agree with you, it just seems like this whole thread won't end with any particular new understanding.

And if you've read this far, I just want to say that the term "joker" is stupid and should be abolished.

Thanks for your time.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

My ancestors were Sicilian, not Italian.

You ignored the substantive portion to focus on this?

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

And yes, had that happened right after the white people killed the Native Americans, hell yeah they should be scared. Should African Americans be scared if a skinhead came through their neighborhood? Should Jewish people be scared if a Nazi came through theirs?

This is an improper analogy, since you don't know whether a Muslim is an extremist. Instead you should say:

"Should African Americans be scared if a white person came through their neighborhood? Should Jewish people be scared if a German came through theirs?"

... because this guy is Muslim. He's not a Muslim Extremist (nee "Terrorist"), at least by appearances.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Yes this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But oh well. Being attacked for my thoughts and beliefs is fun.

You're not being attacked, you're being questioned and asked to justify. That's OK - maybe I was a bit over the top, but when you claim something outlandish or beyond the pale, you'll have to defend the claim. This is a meritocracy, not Kindergarten - your ideas are not automatically "ok" just because they exist.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

You ignored the substantive portion to focus on this?



This is an improper analogy, since you don't know whether a Muslim is an extremist. Instead you should say:

"Should African Americans be scared if a white person came through their neighborhood? Should Jewish people be scared if a German came through theirs?"

... because this guy is Muslim. He's not a Muslim Extremist (nee "Terrorist"), at least by appearances.



You're not being attacked, you're being questioned and asked to justify. That's OK - maybe I was a bit over the top, but when you claim something outlandish or beyond the pale, you'll have to defend the claim. This is a meritocracy, not Kindergarten - your ideas are not automatically "ok" just because they exist.

You know what sticks out most in my mind "Red bandana things..."

Just....wow.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

You're not being attacked, you're being questioned and asked to justify. That's OK - maybe I was a bit over the top, but when you claim something outlandish or beyond the pale, you'll have to defend the claim. This is a meritocracy, not Kindergarten - your ideas are not automatically "ok" just because they exist.

Great paragraph.

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

. That's OK - maybe I was a bit over the top, but when you claim something outlandish or beyond the pale, you'll have to defend the claim. This is a meritocracy, not Kindergarten - your ideas are not automatically "ok" just because they exist.

Says who she or anyone else has to defend their ideas or opinions on Greekchat.com? You dont have to agree with one's ideas or opinions. They have the right to those ideas or opinions. You can respectfully agree to disagree with them.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

Says who she or anyone else has to defend their ideas or opinions on Greekchat.com? You dont have to agree with one's ideas or opinions. They have the right to those ideas or opinions. You can respectfully agree to disagree with them.

Then what's the point of discussion?

Agreeing to disagree is for the birds. It goes without saying that you won't change people's minds. The point is to understand different points of view. That requires clear and concise expressions of the points of view.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Then what's the point of discussion?

Agreeing to disagree is for the birds. It goes without saying that you won't change people's minds. The point is to understand different points of view. That requires clear and concise expressions of the points of view.

i always figured it's to make people feel dumb for being wrong.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

Says who she or anyone else has to defend their ideas or opinions on Greekchat.com? You dont have to agree with one's ideas or opinions. They have the right to those ideas or opinions. You can respectfully agree to disagree with them.

They have a right to have those opinions.

That doesn't mean those opinions are right - no one has to defend their opinions, but if their opinions are poorly formed, based on something other than logic (like, oh, prejudice or fear or hate or ignorance), or otherwise wrong (both in the sense of "incorrect" and "not right"), there's no reason not to challenge those opinions.

You can choose whether or not to defend your thoughts/opinions/beliefs, but it's actually quite immature to say "But it's MY OPINION! I have a right to an OPINION!" as some sort of absolute defense to others questioning you. That's not how it works, and the faster we can disavow ourselves of this myth, the better discussion and communication will become.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

They have a right to have those opinions.

That doesn't mean those opinions are right - no one has to defend their opinions, but if their opinions are poorly formed, based on something other than logic (like, oh, prejudice or fear or hate or ignorance), or otherwise wrong (both in the sense of "incorrect" and "not right"), there's no reason not to challenge those opinions.

You can choose whether or not to defend your thoughts/opinions/beliefs, but it's actually quite immature to say "But it's MY OPINION! I have a right to an OPINION!" as some sort of absolute defense to others questioning you. That's not how it works, and the faster we can disavow ourselves of this myth, the better discussion and communication will become.

This post should be stickied somewhere by itself.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

They have a right to have those opinions.

That doesn't mean those opinions are right - no one has to defend their opinions, but if their opinions are poorly formed, based on something other than logic (like, oh, prejudice or fear or hate or ignorance), or otherwise wrong (both in the sense of "incorrect" and "not right"), there's no reason not to challenge those opinions.

You can choose whether or not to defend your thoughts/opinions/beliefs, but it's actually quite immature to say "But it's MY OPINION! I have a right to an OPINION!" as some sort of absolute defense to others questioning you. That's not how it works, and the faster we can disavow ourselves of this myth, the better discussion and communication will become.

Agreed 100%. Somehow the idea has developed on this site that a person has a right to state their opinions, but those who disagree have no right to do so. Where that came from, I don't know.

If you're going to air your opinions in public, and, specifically, if you're going to announce your opinions on controversial subjects, you have to expect that there will be someone who will disagree with you. If you can't accept that, then I don't know what to tell you.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by AGDee

We know because some of them have been arrested, including the owner of a very popular and high profile local restaurant chain who even had a relative working for the government (some of whom have been arrested and some of whom have left the country). It is a fact that there are terror cells within 10 minutes of where PM_Mama lives.

Air Tran has assigned seating, unlike SouthWest.

Thanks for clarifying (on both). I didn't know that was case, and I probably would be a little more aware of the people around me.

Originally Posted by AGDee

A lot of people have been deeply affected by 9/11 and are much more nervous about getting on a plane. Have you seriously never been uncomfortable with a stranger on an elevator because they gave you a bad vibe? When we had the big blackout of 2003, the first thing people thought was "terrorism". Before 9/11, we would have assumed "mechanical failure". We are in a different reality than we were on 9/10/01.

Nope I haven't. Just like I don't get nervous about the people on the plane around me. I DO get scared thinking the plane is going to malfunction & crash, but not that anyone is gonna hijack the plane.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

eta: I get Palestine and Pakistan mixed up all the time. He may be from Palestine. I need to ask her.

The ONLY way her father could be Pakistani and Arab is if he was 1/2 & 1/2 (1/2 pakistani, 1/2 Arab). Pakistani people are NOT Arabs. If he is Arab, then you are probably right that's he's Palestinian.

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

Hmm. You don't think recent Israeli activities in Palestine would have anything to do with their sentiment, huh? Could you tell whether or not they were Palestinian?

Yeah I mentioned that to TP the first time she talked about it, and she didn't care. She said it didn't matter whether they were "Palestinian or Arab." But actually it does matter, because of the Palestinian sentiment towards Israel.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by epchick

The ONLY way her father could be Pakistani and Arab is if he was 1/2 & 1/2 (1/2 pakistani, 1/2 Arab). Pakistani people are NOT Arabs. If he is Arab, then you are probably right that's he's Palestinian.

Unless he is Arab and lived in Pakistan. I need to talk to her about it cuz now I'm confused. I do know that wherever it is out there, he married a woman from there (friend's step-mother) and she visits often and doesn't speak much English.

The red bandana thing... I shouldn't have said bandana. It was the red strip of fabric thing that they tyed around their head before taking over. It could have a real name, not sure.

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

My ancestors were Sicilian, not Italian.

And yes, had that happened right after the white people killed the Native Americans, hell yeah they should be scared. Should African Americans be scared if a skinhead came through their neighborhood? Should Jewish people be scared if a Nazi came through theirs?

Yes this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But oh well. Being attacked for my thoughts and beliefs is fun.

I was scared and pissed off when I was walking down the Vegas strip after Christmas and some arabs/palestinians/middle-easterners shouted "Death to Israel" to some Jews who were simply driving down the strip wishing people happy holidays and a happy new year (a nice gesture that had nothing to do with politics or current issues). Husband and I moved to the other side of the strip in both fear of something happening and fear of what we may say in anger to spark an argument/dispute.

I will stand up and support PM_Mama on this issue.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

I was scared and pissed off when I was walking down the Vegas strip after Christmas and some arabs/palestinians/middle-easterners shouted "Death to Israel" to some Jews who were simply driving down the strip wishing people happy holidays and a happy new year (a nice gesture that had nothing to do with politics or current issues). Husband and I moved to the other side of the strip in both fear of something happening and fear of what we may say in anger to spark an argument/dispute.

I will stand up and support PM_Mama on this issue.

Apples and oranges.

The people that you are talking about were exercising their free speech (in English) in a manner that was overtly confrontational and meant to incite negative emotion. "We will not be silent" is not so clear and is being interpreted as saying something that it may not. If that tshirt had said "gummy bears are awesome" in Arabic, people would have still been afraid. "Gummy bears" would have been interpreted as a code word for suicide plane bombers.