240,000 dollars awarded to man forced to cover Arab T-shirt

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

They have everything to do with your posts.

read what you wrote:




Think about that...really.

No it doesn't. And I've noticed that in any debate on GC, you see what you want to see without reading details. So I choose not to answer you anymore.

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Your first sentence is what caught my eye. If you could read it...well if you could you'd feel safe. You have fear, which can be a healthy and natural thing, but I think it is misdirected here. It is okay to be scared in life, but it isn't okay to be irrational in the process. There were sarin gas attacks in Japanese subways that were considered a terrorist attack, and some people believe the actions of the Chinese toward Tibetans are terrorist acts as well; however you cannot ethcially and in good conscience associate anything Arabic with terrorism. If you went to school in Dearborn, and I know there are lots of Middle Eastern people and practicing Muslims in your community, you have to know some good people.

There are people in my church (locally, nationally, world wide) who are Middle Eastern and speak Arabic, not everyone is an Islamic extremist with fatwas and a jihad, I wish you could see that and let the hate and fear out of your heart, it makes me sad.

But I don't see everyone as an Islamic extremist. Lol I said that right in my post that I never felt threatened by them. My best friend's dad is straight from Pakistan and I certainly am not threatened by him. And it is normal to feel threatened or nervous by what you don't know. There are terrorist cells a 10 minute drive from where I live and that's scary. Since 9-11, I'm very wary of everyone around me. I feel the same way when I get into an elevator (aka death trap) with someone I don't know, no matter what color (yes even white) or religion they are. 9-11 has made people paranoid, and I'm one of those people. This is a current fear due to something that is still so fresh in a lot of people's minds. I'm sorry but that's the living truth and I'm not going to be ridiculed for stating my thoughts and feelings on it.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

But I don't see everyone as an Islamic extremist. Lol I said that right in my post that I never felt threatened by them. My best friend's dad is straight from Pakistan and I certainly am not threatened by him. And it is normal to feel threatened or nervous by what you don't know. There are terrorist cells a 10 minute drive from where I live and that's scary. Since 9-11, I'm very wary of everyone around me. I feel the same way when I get into an elevator (aka death trap) with someone I don't know, no matter what color (yes even white) or religion they are. 9-11 has made people paranoid, and I'm one of those people. This is a current fear due to something that is still so fresh in a lot of people's minds. I'm sorry but that's the living truth and I'm not going to be ridiculed for stating my thoughts and feelings on it.

That last part a bout the elevator....heh...that is some bullshit if I ever read it...if you are that paranoid about people you don't know....stay in the house especially if you are using a post 9-11 reason for being that way...

Timothy McVeigh looked like a typical American and look how he turned out.

Again...look at those pics of the shirts...you simply fear what you don't understand BECAUSE you don't know what they mean. All of those shirts in Japanese, Cyrillic, Hebrew could all be saying something and you wouldn't know what they mean...should they be banned from U.S. airports because they aren't in American (pay attention y'all)?


My mixed feelings come from the way he was treated. Yes I think he did it for attention. No I don't think he should have been treated the way he was. I love having freedom of speech but I think sometimes people take it too far.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel if he was wearing one of those red bandana things around his head like the terrorists put on right before they took the planes over? Would that make you nervous or would you feel like "I don't wana racially profile".

^^^ this comes from watching too many movies I suppose

Do you fear people who wear turbans?

And please for the love of God explain how wearing a shirt bearing the writings of his native tongue him going too far in expressing his freedom of speech?


But you know what...I wear dredds and I get profiled....anyone wanna offer me some ganga?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

But I don't see everyone as an Islamic extremist. Lol I said that right in my post that I never felt threatened by them. My best friend's dad is straight from Pakistan and I certainly am not threatened by him. And it is normal to feel threatened or nervous by what you don't know. There are terrorist cells a 10 minute drive from where I live and that's scary. Since 9-11, I'm very wary of everyone around me. I feel the same way when I get into an elevator (aka death trap) with someone I don't know, no matter what color (yes even white) or religion they are. 9-11 has made people paranoid, and I'm one of those people. This is a current fear due to something that is still so fresh in a lot of people's minds. I'm sorry but that's the living truth and I'm not going to be ridiculed for stating my thoughts and feelings on it.

WOW. First of all, how do you know there are "terrorist cells" within a 10 minute drive? Why do you constitute "terrorist cell" as? Just because they people are Arabs or Muslims? If you come from the "most Arab populated city in the country" shouldn't you be a little more open-minded?

If you are that scared, then really do stay indoors. If 9-11 has made you THAT paranoid, then you should seek some counseling.

Just a little FYI, but Pakistani =/= Arab.


ETA: This reminds me of the story I heard the other day about the Arab family who got kicked off a plane because they were debating what part of the plane was safer to sit in. EVERY time I get on a plane, I always ask what part of the plane is the safest and never have I been kicked off, but because this family was Arab (fyi:they were speaking in English, not Arabic) they took the comments as 'terrorist talk'

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by epchick

WOW. First of all, how do you know there are "terrorist cells" within a 10 minute drive? Why do you constitute "terrorist cell" as? Just because they people are Arabs or Muslims? If you come from the "most Arab populated city in the country" shouldn't you be a little more open-minded?

If you are that scared, then really do stay indoors. If 9-11 has made you THAT paranoid, then you should seek some counseling.

Just a little FYI, but Pakistani =/= Arab.


ETA: This reminds me of the story I heard the other day about the Arab family who got kicked off a plane because they were debating what part of the plane was safer to sit in. EVERY time I get on a plane, I always ask what part of the plane is the safest and never have I been kicked off, but because this family was Arab (fyi:they were speaking in English, not Arabic) they took the comments as 'terrorist talk'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Muslim family removed from an airliner Thursday after passengers became concerned about their conversation say AirTran officials refused to rebook them, even after FBI investigators cleared them of wrongdoing.


A Muslim family was removed from an AirTran flight after a conversation about the safest place to sit.

Atif Irfan said federal authorities removed eight members of his extended family and a friend after passengers heard them discussing the safest place to sit and misconstrued the nature of the conversation.

Irfan, a U.S. citizen and tax attorney, said he was "impressed with the professionalism" of the FBI agents who questioned him, but said he felt mistreated when the airline refused to book the family for a later flight.

AirTran Airways late Thursday said they acted properly and that the family was offered full refunds and can fly with AirTran again.

"AirTran Airways complied with all TSA, law enforcement and Homeland Security directives and had no discretion in the matter," the company said in a prepared statement.



http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/01/01...f=mpstoryemail


I got a question....how do u have this convo when once you purchase your tix, you are sitting in that one seat?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I got a question....how do u have this convo when once you purchase your tix, you are sitting in that one seat?

Not necessarily. When I fly Southwest, I don't get an assigned seat. I'm given a lettered boarding pass (like A, B, or C) and then its just kinda first come, first serve. So if I have a boarding pass "A" then I pretty much get the pick any seat on the plane.

AirTran might have a similar "seating arrangement" that Southwest has.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by epchick

Not necessarily. When I fly Southwest, I don't get an assigned seat. I'm given a lettered boarding pass (like A, B, or C) and then its just kinda first come, first serve. So if I have a boarding pass "A" then I pretty much get the pick any seat on the plane.

AirTran might have a similar "seating arrangement" that Southwest has.

Hmmm...I didn't know that..but then ususally when I fly I request the emergency aisle for the extra leg room...

[SWTXBelle]

A distinction needs to be made between a personal, emotional and perhaps illogical reaction to something like the shirt in question and having authorities act on someone's reaction, or even worse on a hypothetical reaction. So - did the shirt constitute a threat? The court decision is "no".

Free speech which doesn't protect speech which makes others uncomfortable is hardly "free".

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by epchick

WOW. First of all, how do you know there are "terrorist cells" within a 10 minute drive? Why do you constitute "terrorist cell" as? Just because they people are Arabs or Muslims? If you come from the "most Arab populated city in the country" shouldn't you be a little more open-minded?

We know because some of them have been arrested, including the owner of a very popular and high profile local restaurant chain who even had a relative working for the government (some of whom have been arrested and some of whom have left the country). It is a fact that there are terror cells within 10 minutes of where PM_Mama lives.

Air Tran has assigned seating, unlike SouthWest.

A lot of people have been deeply affected by 9/11 and are much more nervous about getting on a plane. Have you seriously never been uncomfortable with a stranger on an elevator because they gave you a bad vibe? When we had the big blackout of 2003, the first thing people thought was "terrorism". Before 9/11, we would have assumed "mechanical failure". We are in a different reality than we were on 9/10/01.


While I don't agree with racial profiling in general, the reality is, most Al Qaeda members are not little old white ladies. Profiling is a reality. It's a reality when you're crossing the border between Detroit and Windsor. Young white men who don't look clean cut almost always get stopped and have their cars searched for drugs. I've never had my car searched when crossing the border. Some people are under more scrutiny because of their appearance and demeanor. My brother had friends who were troublemakers and often got labeled as a troublemaker as a kid even though he never did anything wrong himself. He got blamed for stuff anyway because he hung out with suspect kids. This is human nature.

If something similar to 9/11 happened again and one of the terrorists were wearing a t-shirt like that, there would be outcries that nobody checked out the person who was wearing that shirt. We have been encouraged to keep our eyes out for anybody/anything that looks suspicious. This is the result of that. It takes one small thing to completely change how airport security looks at things. The "shoe bomber" led to everybody taking off their shoes and having them x-rayed, even flip flops which obviously have nowhere to hide a bomb. The liquid explosive scare has us unable to bring a large bottle of shampoo in our carry ons. They pretty much HAVE to check out anybody who is making others suspicious. It doesn't mean they'll catch the next terrorist, but if it means they miss one, there would be hell to pay for them.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by AGDee

We know because some of them have been arrested, including the owner of a very popular and high profile local restaurant chain who even had a relative working for the government (some of whom have been arrested and some of whom have left the country). It is a fact that there are terror cells within 10 minutes of where PM_Mama lives.

I don't know that this is something specific to one's closeness to the situation, or that it makes PM_Mama's situation that much different than a number of people...I would imagine there are anti-American elements in a lot of cities, and heck, the planes went right through Boston where KSigRC, myself, and a bunch of other members of this board were going to school. Not to mention the members of the board who were living in NYC at the time, or who lost family members and friends on 9/11...

On a somewhat unrelated note - I always wonder about the difference in feelings by people who lost loved ones on 9/11, and those who did not. In my immediate circle of friends and acquaintances (those who lost friends and family, and those who were living in NYC or working near Ground Zero) have tended to hold softer lines on this kind of stuff than others. In other words, they're the ones who wouldn't mind sitting on an airplane with someone like this claimant.

I often wonder whether my friends are a representative group in that regard. It's not to say that each person is entitled to their own opinions on these things, but I always thought that the split in feelings among my friends was interesting.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I don't know that this is something specific to one's closeness to the situation, or that it makes PM_Mama's situation that much different than a number of people...I would imagine there are anti-American elements in a lot of cities, and heck, the planes went right through Boston where KSigRC, myself, and a bunch of other members of this board were going to school. Not to mention the members of the board who were living in NYC at the time, or who lost family members and friends on 9/11...

On a somewhat unrelated note - I always wonder about the difference in feelings by people who lost loved ones on 9/11, and those who did not. In my immediate circle of friends and acquaintances (those who lost friends and family, and those who were living in NYC or working near Ground Zero) have tended to hold softer lines on this kind of stuff than others. In other words, they're the ones who wouldn't mind sitting on an airplane with someone like this claimant.

I was simply answering the "How do you know..." question. Every couple months there is a news story about someone being arrested for channeling money to militant terrorist groups (not just al Qaeda, but also Hezbelloh and Hamas, etc.)

You do bring up some good questions.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by epchick

Does it look more like this (a Keyyifeh):



or

this (sometimes called a Shemagh or a ghutra an iqal):

Nope it was pretty much a red fabric that they tide around their head. I saw it on both movies, United 93 and Flight 93. It's when they all look at each other, tie them on their heads and that's when people on the plane know that something is wrong. I've never seen it other than on the movies.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I've never seen it other than on the movies.

Then that's probably your answer. It was something the movie producers created to add some "drama" to the movie.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Profiling is a reality.

^^^^^

justifying infringing on people's rights.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by starang21

^^^^^

justifying infringing on people's rights.

Did I say it was justified? There are many things that are a reality but are not justified. In some cases it is justified (thinking.. FBI psychological profiling of serial killers, which tends to be very accurate) and in some cases it is not (assuming that a husband killed a wife who has disappeared). Profiling occurs in every walk of life and in almost every situation. Life insurance companies do it (raising rates for smokers and people with chronic illnesses), marketing and advertising agencies do it (beer ads during football games, make up ads during Lipstick Jungle), auto companies market certain cars to certain people. If a newborn is found in a highschool bathroom, they don't search the local nursing home for 85 year old men who may have done it. It's not always an infringement on people's rights. Sometimes it is. It can be a way of narrowing down who you're looking for. If you read the rest of my post, you'd see that I cited times that it didn't make sense, so please don't take it out of context.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

And it is normal to feel threatened or nervous by what you don't know.

Nervous? Perhaps. But, threatened? Really?