The Term African American

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle

I am African-Native-American. Simple as that. I do not like the terms:

• Black-my skin is a beautiful chocolate brown
• Negro
• Negroid
• Nig***
• Niggras
• Darkie
• Sambo
• Colored

or any other negative connotation created to make me (or my people) feel like we do not belong to the HUMAN race.

My roots go back to Africa and to the Blackfoot Nation of this country though I wouldn't doubt there is some Caucasian somewhere down the line of my family tree.

I like the term and I find it to be an accurate term for those who have African ancestry but are American citizens, not those who are Haitian, Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc..

I don't put much energy into "correcting" people into my line of thinking because ultimately, we are all going to think what we want however, if someone were to ask me, then I will say I am A.A.-Native American. If some 90 year old woman who is still stuck in the 50's terminology (I personally know people like this of all races) says "and then the colored woman said blah blah..", I let it go. It's not worth the energy.

Should "white" be offensive, then?

I am "white", but I am not white at all. I'm a light tan.

I haven't heard/met anyone who used the term "black" in an offensive manner. I have heard almost all of the other terms used either by old folks who aren't going to change their ways or by people who intend to be hateful. But I haven't heard "black" used in that manner. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I don't think it has a negative connotation like the racial slurs listed do. We can all think of racial slurs for every race under the sun including white, Asian, black, Hispanic...anyone and everyone. Some people in every race enjoy tearing down a different race. It's just that I haven't heard "black" nor "white" in anyone's arsenal of hateful words.

Would you feel it accurate for me to call myself Scotch-Irish Italian American, as that is my "ancestry"...about 200 years or more back. European American would I guess be a more accurate analogy to African American. There are still heirlooms and bits of speech here and there in my family that have been passed down so the heritage is there, but I think people would find that description of myself inappropriate or unnecessary.

I'm curious to know because for some reason this doesn't seem to translate. It's interesting to me.

Also, someone else brought up an interesting point...someone who is white but was born and raised in an African country and moved to America is African-American, if the term is used correctly. There IS a place for skin color in descriptions...it's a physical characteristic. I guess that's why to me "black" and "white" make sense. Anyone with eyes knows that both descriptions are rarely absolutely correct, but it simplifies. "White" is the color of an eggshell and how many people do you know that are THAT color? Few. "Black" is the color of ink and again, how many people are that color? Few. But everyone knows "white" means a person who is Caucasian, and who is probably somewhere in the range of white to deep tan and that "black" means someone who is African and probably somewhere in the range from black to light brown.

Maybe I'm idealistic, but I enjoy the idea of limiting differentiations based on race to simply physical characteristics...white, black, brown, tan, etc. But "African American" or "Asian American" to me, for someone born in the US many generations back creates a division. We're all Americans. It's different for someone who was born and raised in a foreign country and probably does owe some allegiance to their childhood home. But for those of us who have been here for generations it feels divisive to me, and it is used in an overly PC manner. Many people have given the example of a person who is of "African descent" but from another country like England or a Caribbean island being called "African American". I just find it all interesting. I think we should all form our own personal identities, but I don't feel like I'm being offensive when I call someone either "white" or "black", I guess. I don't feel obligated to differentiate between "African American", "Asian American", "European American", etc.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Then take yourself out of the conversation.

The point of discussion is to discuss. For instance, someone could explain to me why it is offensive. I explained why I do not understand...because I do not find "White", an inaccurate description of my skin color, to be offensive. So why is "black" offensive? That is what I'm discussing/asking. Since it is simply an overly simplified physical description (as is "white"...or "brunette"...or "redhead"...there are shades of every color we have on our skin, heads and in our eyes), it seems useful in describing a person. Like white girl with long brown hair and blue eyes or black guy with short hair and brown eyes.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

The point of discussion is to discuss. For instance, someone could explain to me why it is offensive. I explained why I do not understand...because I do not find "White", an inaccurate description of my skin color, to be offensive. So why is "black" offensive? That is what I'm discussing/asking. Since it is simply an overly simplified physical description (as is "white"...or "brunette"...or "redhead"...there are shades of every color we have on our skin, heads and in our eyes), it seems useful in describing a person. Like white girl with long brown hair and blue eyes or black guy with short hair and brown eyes.

As you can see from the thread, some people prefer African American and some prefer black. What more needs to be discussed? Anyway, NinjaPoodle responded to your question. She said, she prefers not to be called black, among other things because those identifiers were "created to make [her (or her people)] feel like we do not belong to the HUMAN race." Did you miss that response?

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

As you can see from the thread, some people prefer African American and some prefer black. What more needs to be discussed? Anyway, NinjaPoodle responded to your question. She said, she prefers not to be called black, among other things because those identifiers were "created to make [her (or her people)] feel like we do not belong to the HUMAN race." Did you miss that response?

Quite obviously I did not. I responded that I hadn't heard the term "black" ever used as a racial slur, though I had heard every one of the others listed. Nor have I heard "white" used as a racial slur, though I have heard many slurs.

There is a lot to be discussed, and the rest of my post is very long. Chill out...everyone else seems to be interested in discussion. What's the problem?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

Should "white" be offensive, then?

I am "white", but I am not white at all. I'm a light tan.

I haven't heard/met anyone who used the term "black" in an offensive manner. I have heard almost all of the other terms used either by old folks who aren't going to change their ways or by people who intend to be hateful. But I haven't heard "black" used in that manner.

I'm curious to know because for some reason this doesn't seem to translate. It's interesting to me.

But "African American" or "Asian American" to me, for someone born in the US many generations back creates a division. We're all Americans...But for those of us who have been here for generations it feels divisive to me, and it is used in an overly PC manner. Many people have given the example of a person who is of "African descent" but from another country like England or a Caribbean island being called "African American". I just find it all interesting. I think we should all form our own personal identities, but I don't feel like I'm being offensive when I call someone either "white" or "black", I guess. I don't feel obligated to differentiate between "African American", "Asian American", "European American", etc.

I explained why I do not understand...because I do not find "White", an inaccurate description of my skin color, to be offensive. So why is "black" offensive? That is what I'm discussing/asking. Since it is simply an overly simplified physical description (as is "white"...or "brunette"...or "redhead"...there are shades of every color we have on our skin, heads and in our eyes), it seems useful in describing a person. Like white girl with long brown hair and blue eyes or black guy with short hair and brown eyes.

There is too much sanctimony on GC to find a supercilious resolution to your inquiry. That is why we are telling you to leave this topic--because really it is a ridiculous discussion. Such self-righteousness only ends in bitter disgust of the many on GC.

Good luck in finding your own answers to this question, especially on GC...

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

There is too much sanctimony on GC to find a supercilious resolution to your inquiry. That is why we are telling you to leave this topic--because really it is a ridiculous discussion. Such self-righteousness only ends in bitter disgust of the many on GC.

Good luck in finding your own answers to this question, especially on GC...

Who's being self-righteous?

Also, might I point out that there isn't "a question". It isn't a ridiculous discussion just because there is no one answer. What's the fun in only finding answers?

No one has all the answers, but unless this thread is offending someone (and though I haven't read every page, so far taking offense would be a little...sensitive, I think), why shut down those who want to talk? Let it be and if no one stays interested it'll die.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

Who's being self-righteous?

Also, might I point out that there isn't "a question". It isn't a ridiculous discussion just because there is no one answer. What's the fun in only finding answers?

No one has all the answers, but unless this thread is offending someone (and though I haven't read every page, so far taking offense would be a little...sensitive, I think), why shut down those who want to talk? Let it be and if no one stays interested it'll die.

Oooooo Missy puhleeze don't beat me on houwse I calls myself!

Translation--This discussion is stupid in stereo... Tweeting about it is nothing more than a "clanging bell"--it means nothing but wasted space. How you choose to draw your box on how you want me in, doesn't mean I draw one your way or I get a failing grade. That's retarded--like, you like chocolate milk!!!

Hayle, if you want to call yourself "Sugar Honey Iced Tea-colored", it should be your choice. I would not choose that kind of definition of myself, but, that is how some people think--what is it to me??? :huh:

Why don't you answer this question for me: What is it to you what people call themselves in the grand scheme of things?

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Oooooo Missy puhleeze don't beat me on houwse I calls myself!

Translation--This discussion is stupid in stereo... Tweeting about it is nothing more than a "clanging bell"--it means nothing but wasted space. How you choose to draw your box on how you want me in, doesn't mean I draw one your way or I get a failing grade. That's retarded--like, you like chocolate milk!!!

Hayle, if you want to call yourself "Sugar Honey Iced Tea-colored", it should be your choice. I would not choose that kind of definition of myself, but, that is how some people think--what is it to me??? :huh:

Why don't you answer this question for me: What is it to you what people call themselves in the grand scheme of things?

I guess what I fail to understand is why discussion shouldn't take place. What is the point in going through life never wanting to understand anyone else's point of view? Mine is different from yours and that's the point. The point isn't to change the world's system of labeling but to see why people think the way they do. It goes like this: I give my opinion, someone else gives theirs. Someone else responds to my opinion and I respond to the first's opinion, who responds to the second person's opinion, and there you are...three different points of view. Beautiful.

Suggestion...Because you aren't going to be able to convince me that discussion is bad and because I won't be able to convince you that it's good, why not both of us stop talking to each other? If anyone is interested in the topic at hand they'll offer their opinions and if not the thread will die. Either way, THIS isn't the point...it isn't going to go anywhere...arguing isn't discussion. It's arguing.

To answer your question: interesting.

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

This may just be my $.02 - but perhaps if you want to start a "Calling someone Black v. Calling someone White" thread, it would be a more appropriate place for your part of the discussion.

I just don't think that you and I, as white women, should really be commenting on whether people should be called African American or Black. Not that I have a huge amount of guilt about the past (because I don't, really), I just don't think it's my place as someone who is not a member of the culture or race to slap a label on it.

And I don't think it's your place, either.

The world would be a boring place full of misunderstandings and divisions if we can ONLY talk about people with the same skin color as ourselves. Being overly PC doesn't do anyone favors. It's a discussion. I am very obviously not here to change anyone's mind nor did I for a moment think I could. It's interesting and it's good to understand...and the door works both ways. I think the question "Why is "black" offensive when "white" is not?" is interesting and people have different opinions on why that is or is not true.

And of course, think what you want, but it's also nowhere near your place to tell me what to talk about.

[Ch2tf]

^^^
Sweety you're missing the point. Others have expressed to you that calling them black (and a myriad of other terms) is disrespectful to them. What people have been trying to tell you and you have yet to grasp is that they don't NEED to give you a reason why they feel the way they do. They do not HAVE to engage in discussion with you on this topic.

This discussion and similar discussions have been attempted time and again on GC and members do not want to engage in said discussion once again. Should you have a implacable desire to discuss this, then find another venue, simple as that.

And just because YOU don't find white offensive doesn't mean it isn't. I know a young woman who can be/and often is categorized as "white" but the term is EXTREMELY offensive to her and she makes her feelings on the matter known should a situation arise.

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

^^^
Sweety you're missing the point. Others have expressed to you that calling them black (and a myriad of other terms) is disrespectful to them. What people have been trying to tell you and you have yet to grasp is that they don't NEED to give you a reason why they feel the way they do. They do not HAVE to engage in discussion with you on this topic.

This discussion and similar discussions have been attempted time and again on GC and members do not want to engage in said discussion once again. Should you have a implacable desire to discuss this, then find another venue, simple as that.

And just because YOU don't find white offensive doesn't mean it isn't. I know a young woman who can be/and often is categorized as "white" but the term is EXTREMELY offensive to her and she makes her feelings on the matter known should a situation arise.

And others have expressed that it is NOT offensive and that other terms are.

You aren't going to change my mind...so continue to waste time if wished. I will wait for someone capable of discussing and if no one wishes to, that's fine as well. In the mean time, I strongly believe that discussion is important for human beings to understand one another...you will not change my mind on that viewpoint, but continue to try if you wish.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Oooooo Missy puhleeze don't beat me on houwse I calls myself!

LOL.

I recommend, as always, that LOVE conducts some research on this topic if it interests her. But GC isn't a research source.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

I am "white"

Which explains why you are forcing this topic.

No offense to the white GCers who can take how people self-identify and let it be, but topics such as this are often perpetuated by whites. It is similar to some whites who want to probe blacks on the use of the N word. This isn't an in depth discussion of race dynamics and race interactions that generate and perpetuate these categories. It's a surface-level probing that gets extremely annoying when people have essentially told you that blacks are not monolithic and opinions will vary.

Americans of near or distant African descent understand why "black" and "African American" and "black not Hispanic" and "Hispanic not black" are relevant for Census, research, record keeping and other purposes where categories of humans are necessary. But as for cultural and ethnic identities that include but transcend race, people know what they identify with and as.

For instance, an olive complexioned Greek-American has cultural and ethnic identities. For race identity, he or she is classified as "white" but can PERSONALLY prefer to be called something else. That doesn't mean that their personal preference will be acknowledged by everyone or that it socially overshadows the general category of "white" that is used to simplify matters. The people who responded to this thread acknowledge the categories and were sharing their opinions of them. However, they aren't unaware of the social reality of these categories.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No offense to the white GCers who can take how people self-identify and let it be, but topics such as this are often perpetuated by whites...It's a surface-level probing that gets extremely annoying when people have essentially told you that blacks are not monolithic and opinions will vary.

You've pinpointed my issue with LOVE in this thread.

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Which explains why you are forcing this topic.

No offense to the white GCers who can take how people self-identify and let it be, but topics such as this are often perpetuated by whites. It is similar to some whites who want to probe blacks on the use of the N word. This isn't an in depth discussion of race dynamics and race interactions that generate and perpetuate these categories. It's a surface-level probing that gets extremely annoying when people have essentially told you that blacks are not monolithic and opinions will vary.

Americans of near or distant African descent understand why "black" and "African American" and "black not Hispanic" and "Hispanic not black" are relevant for Census, research, record keeping and other purposes where categories of humans are necessary. But as for cultural and ethnic identities that include but transcend race, people know what they identify with and as.

For instance, an olive complexioned Greek-American has cultural and ethnic identities. For race identity, he or she is classified as "white" but can PERSONALLY prefer to be called something else. That doesn't mean that their personal preference will be acknowledged by everyone or that it socially overshadows the general category of "white" that is used to simplify matters. The people who responded to this thread acknowledge the categories and were sharing their opinions of them. However, they aren't unaware of the social reality of these categories.

Ok, maybe I am not making myself clear, but I am beginning to think I shouldn't blame myself at this point.

As I have said...repeatedly...if no one wants to discuss it THAT IS FINE. I cannot have a discussion with myself. But I AM NOT obligated to NOT discuss with anyone who cares to because some people think it's stupid. NO ONE IS FORCING ANYTHING. If no one is interested no one will discuss. What a simple solution!

Now we are getting into another interesting discussion...the fact that my posts have (obviously to myself) not been read thoroughly, but skimmed and assumptions made because I said I was "white". Nowhere in my posts have I made the assumption that "all black people think the same" and have pointedly discussed the fact that "all black people" DO NOT think the same...hence the interest in the topic. All "white people" do not think the same either, by the way.

Maybe some are overly sensitive or defensive and on message boards I expect that, but the posts I write are to individual posters and not to an entire ethnic group, and that is the entire point of them. No one person here can speak for all people of a similar ethnic group, and I never have assumed that they could. Now, if anyone wants to respond to what has actually been written, and not to a skimmed over and pre-conceived notion filled version of what is there in black and white, fine. Otherwise, advice duly noted, though it doesn't exactly apply. Should I one day decide to place all people of one particular ethnic group into a category I will take your sage words into account when speaking with the selected spokesperson. But until that day...leave be.

[rhoyaltempest]

The bottom line is that people are free to identify themselves however they wish based on whatever rationale that makes sense to them. And by the way, being however many years removed does not automatically make you less African, Irish, or whatever.

Overall, people are who they identify themselves to be and who are we to tell anyone how they should view themselves? Why is Obama African American? Because he says he is. Period. The end.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by LΩVE

Ok, maybe I am not making myself clear, but I am beginning to think I shouldn't blame myself at this point.

As I have said...repeatedly...if no one wants to discuss it THAT IS FINE. I cannot have a discussion with myself. But I AM NOT obligated to NOT discuss with anyone who cares to because some people think it's stupid. NO ONE IS FORCING ANYTHING. If no one is interested no one will discuss. What a simple solution!

Now we are getting into another interesting discussion...the fact that my posts have (obviously to myself) not been read thoroughly, but skimmed and assumptions made because I said I was "white". Nowhere in my posts have I made the assumption that "all black people think the same" and have pointedly discussed the fact that "all black people" DO NOT think the same...hence the interest in the topic. All "white people" do not think the same either, by the way.

Maybe some are overly sensitive or defensive and on message boards I expect that, but the posts I write are to individual posters and not to an entire ethnic group, and that is the entire point of them. No one person here can speak for all people of a similar ethnic group, and I never have assumed that they could. Now, if anyone wants to respond to what has actually been written, and not to a skimmed over and pre-conceived notion filled version of what is there in black and white, fine. Otherwise, advice duly noted, though it doesn't exactly apply. Should I one day decide to place all people of one particular ethnic group into a category I will take your sage words into account when speaking with the selected spokesperson. But until that day...leave be.

I think y'all made her mad.