Auto Execs Fly Corporate Jets to D.C., Tin Cups in Hand

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I should have said "how much the union workers cost" which is the issue I'm getting at. However, they do make an incredible salary for their skill level.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I take it you've never met a Union line worker. You've never seen the blood sweat and tears they put into their job. The hours they spend away from their family to put food on the table, going to bed before their own children go to bed because they have to be up at 2 or 3am to make it in for the early shift. They deserve that money. Auto workers are the hardest workers I know. And most aren't even Union. Most are temps who are trying to get into the Union so that they don't lose their job and can get benefits that are hard to come by these days.

x

[Tinia2]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

x

^^^Many workers sweat, many workers get up at o-dark in the morning.
Not too sure what makes auto workers different than others in the comment above.

And perhaps I am wrong but I believe that most of the Big Three workers are Union members.
It is the other plants than maybe something much less than fully Unionized.
2008 VEHICLES BUILT BY UNION MEMBERS
IN THE UNITED STATES & CANADA:
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/index.cfm
What is missing on the above list?
Well, this may give the answer:
http://www.pe.com/business/local/sto...0.2f6117c.html

And while locating the above, I came across the following. Which caused me to re-think a few matters.:
Autoworkers Making $70 An Hour? Not Really
New Republic: Debunking The Myth Of The Exceedingly Well Paid U.S. Autoworker
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.ht...2-56dfc3323682
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4630103.shtml

[Tinia2]

Very interesting video shot by/for Detroit News:
Ford's most advanced assembly plant operates in rural Brazil
http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189
the very last sentence is real interesting.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

x

Low skilled + overtime + union backing = the salary they make. I get that.

ETA: No one "deserves" any salary. We all have a market value and some of us have artificial values assigned to us whether it's through union backing, government assigned salary grades, etc.

[UGAalum94]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...592658,00.html

This covers the problems in the Germany auto industry.

"More than 1.5 million workers in Germany depend on the automobile industry for their jobs. But that industry is now facing one of its worst crises ever. Respected giants BMW and Mercedes are particularly exposed as sales plummet."


I think the stats for October mentioned in the article were that US auto sales were down 32%, down 15% in Europe.

Will someone remind me why consumerism was such a bad thing? It seems like there could be some benefits here.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...592658,00.html

This covers the problems in the Germany auto industry.

That link isn't working for me ...I'm getting a 404 error, in German no less..lol. business is missing an "s"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...592658,00.html

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

That link isn't working for me ...I'm getting a 404 error, in German no less..lol. business is missing an "s"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...592658,00.html

Thank you. I fix the link. I don't know how I managed to cut it out in the middle of the link, but I'm all for more multicultural 404 messages.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Tinia2

And while locating the above, I came across the following. Which caused me to re-think a few matters.:
Autoworkers Making $70 An Hour?[/URL]

Right - That's why I clarified between "making" and "costing the employer" that amount of money. Autoworkers have crazy benefits...even better that government employees.

[preciousjeni]

On another note, why do unions push to establish themselves in companies where the workers don't want them?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

On another note, why do unions push to establish themselves in companies where the workers don't want them?

And what about the getting rid of the secret ballot part of "card check" stuff? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_Free_Choice_Act It's kind of funny that this is in the Chambliss/Martin runoff ads since Georgia is a right to work state. I guess Chambliss is depending on anti-union sentiment.

It just seems odd to me that if the union offers clear benefits to workers than you'd need public pressure to get people to support it. Secret ballot ought to get the job done.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I agree that the unions need to make more concessions. The $70/hr tossed around is full cost, including what they pay for health care benefits, retirement, dental, Social Security, etc. My employer gives us a statement once a year of our "actual cost" to them which is more than double our salaries when you add in all the other stuff. In truth, they make about $20 an hour straight time although they make much more when they work overtime, sometimes as much as triple time (Sundays). They also sometimes have to work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week which is pretty brutal. I've also seen them injured for life at age 40 so some of it is hazard pay. I was shocked at times when their profit sharing checks were more than my annual income. But then they go through times where they end up laid off for a couple weeks several times a year too. At the same time, GM going bankrupt is going to affect hundreds of thousands retirees who have already lost their health care beginning January 1st and now may also lose their pensions. Their GM stock option plans that they invested in their whole lives have dwindled down to nothing.

Hey Dee (and others too )
Any chance you caught Olbermann tonight? He did a nice job of explaining this and I of course thought of this greekchat thread.

[AGDee]

No, I didn't. I was dealing with my personal car issues. I'm rather fed up with MECHANICS right now.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

On another note, why do unions push to establish themselves in companies where the workers don't want them?

Why do non union scabs participate in union bashing of companies where the workers do want unions?

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by madmax

Why do non union scabs participate in union bashing of companies where the workers do want unions?

Ah you wisely edited your post. I was going to say, I suppose it would be hard for me to be a scab as I've never personally been involved with a company that had unions... plus the fact that my mother has been part of the same union for oh I don't know...decades? So, my livelihood was essentially dependent on the work she (and they on her behalf) did.

Try better next time.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Ah you wisely edited your post. I was going to say, I suppose it would be hard for me to be a scab as I've never personally been involved with a company that had unions... plus the fact that my mother has been part of the same union for oh I don't know...decades? So, my livelihood was essentially dependent on the work she (and they on her behalf) did.

Try better next time.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Low skilled + overtime + union backing = the salary they make. I get that.

ETA: No one "deserves" any salary. We all have a market value and some of us have artificial values assigned to us whether it's through union backing, government assigned salary grades, etc.

Does that mean your mom is overpaid and unskilled?