I hope that this is true- the evolution of racial politics

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

Great post. Playing devil's advocate here I will say that I have met a lot of black people who do feel that they are being "held down" by institutional racism- how would you argue that they have a legitimate complaint here now that the most powerful man in the world- elected by a majority white population- is black?

The fact that whites are asking this question highlights the salience of institutional racism. It's like these whites were waiting for something to relieve them of guilt or allow them to dismiss generations of inequality in an instant.

We have a legitimate complaint because there are still huge disparities in this society that aren't just about "lazy minorities who don't have a go get 'em attitude." The existence of blacks who reach a certain level simply means that there are instances where some blacks are seen as exceptions**, where a greater interest is served by allowing color barriers to weaken momentarily, or to create an image of progressiveness. Similar to what happens with gender, social class, and sexual orientation even when sexism and patriarchy, classism, and heterosexism are pervasive.

** White folks were the ones going on and on about Obama being biracial, educated, articulate, and elitist. Many whites needed these things so they could see Obama as "not just any black person/not your typical black man/he doesn't make me nervous/I voted for the white half."

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

** White folks were the ones going on and on about Obama being biracial, educated, articulate, and elitist. Many whites needed these things so they could see Obama as "not just any black person/not your typical black man/he doesn't make me nervous/I voted for the white half."

Thank you for posting this. I've been wanting to say it but couldn't figure out how where to put it legitimately without being flamed. As I saw white America embrace Obama and spoke to unlikely Obama supporters, I realized that they were making him white in their own minds. That's how many of them related. I can't imagine the backlash if Obama did something that his supporters perceived as a "black action" (whatever that means to them) or supported what they believed to be a "black cause." And, look how he quickly he distanced himself from Rev. Wright and his black liberation theology (which, for the record, I believe white America needs to hear and understand). He made it easy for people to see him as a friend, but many people don't see him as he is.

To the question,

How does anyone waste time on racial fantasies like reparations for slavery when there is a black man who earned his way into the White House?

I have my own question. Now that there is going to be a black man in office, will the decision-makers in the criminal justice/law enforcement system now all of the sudden decide that it is a little odd that black people are disproportionately represented in the system? I have other questions too.

[Tinia2]

For the Southern states, a waning grip on U.S. politics
VERNON, Alabama: Fear of the politician with the unusual name and look did not end with last Tuesday's vote in this rural red swatch where mounted buck heads and rifles hang on the wall. This corner of the Deep South still resonates with negative feelings about the race of President-elect Barack Obama.
What may have ended on Election Day, though, is the centrality of the South to national politics. By voting so emphatically for Senator John McCain over Obama — supporting him in some areas in even greater numbers than they did President George W. Bush — voters from Texas to South Carolina and Kentucky may have marginalized their region for some time to come, political experts say.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/...ca/11south.php

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

To the question,



I have my own question. Now that there is going to be a black man in office, will the decision-makers in the criminal justice/law enforcement system now all of the sudden decide that it is a little odd that black people are disproportionately represented in the system? I have other questions too.

Your question is better because it speaks to reality. Most blacks aren't engaged in racial fantasies or concerned with things like reparations for slavery. But white people, in general, keep talking about that as if they have some imaginary inside scoop. It's an attempt to minimize structural and cultural factors, to the point where they become laughable and easily dismissed by those in decision making positions.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Your question is better because it speaks to reality. Most blacks aren't engaged in racial fantasies or concerned with things like reparations for slavery. But white people, in general, keep talking about that as if they have some imaginary inside scoop. It's an attempt to minimize structural and cultural factors, to the point where they become laughable and easily dismissed by those in decision making positions.

How, then, would you explain the huge support for affirmative action from blacks if they aren't trying to get reparations in that way?

[DrPhil]

fantASTic, go ahead and rethink that, edit, or whatever you need to do.

There's basic knowledge that people need if they wish to engage in these types of discussions.

[preciousjeni]

What timing! An e-mail just came out over one of my sorority listservs about the efforts of our Alpha Chapter regarding the justice system. Here's a portion of that e-mail:

Background: The Alpha Chapter has dedicated the Fall 2008 semester to raising awareness about the various cracks in the United States' Justice System. Their awareness activities began with a protest against the potential execution of Troy Davis and will continue over the next two weeks with various publicity exercises and an educational/social justice-based forum (to be held on November 20, 2008 at 7:00pm in Dey 204). Please find the chapter's event blurb/overview below.

Troy Davis: http://www.troyanthonydavis.org/

Alpha Chapter Protest: http://www.dailytarheel.com/news/uni...y/wake_up_call

Additional Information: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/24/...ref=newssearch

[OneTimeSBX]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Your question is better because it speaks to reality. Most blacks aren't engaged in racial fantasies or concerned with things like reparations for slavery. But white people, in general, keep talking about that as if they have some imaginary inside scoop. It's an attempt to minimize structural and cultural factors, to the point where they become laughable and easily dismissed by those in decision making positions.

while the idea of reparations was a good idea at the time, it is unnecessary in this day and age. there are no slaves left that are owed anything. i have had white people mention them to me, however, and i was very amused...i think that some white people feel that blacks still need some sort of payment for our mistreatment back in the day, or else we will retaliate when we get to a position of power. lo and behold, Nov. 4th brought that level of thinking back into their minds, and its that fear that has brought out a very ugly side of racism that a lot of us only heard about from our parents...

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

How, then, would you explain the huge support for affirmative action from blacks if they aren't trying to get reparations in that way?

Originally Posted by DrPhil

fantASTic, go ahead and rethink that, edit, or whatever you need to do.

There's basic knowledge that people need if they wish to engage in these types of discussions.

I'm interested in understanding how affirmative action is even in the same category as reparations. fantASTic?

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I'm interested in understanding how affirmative action is even in the same category as reparations. fantASTic?

In this day and age, it's non-monetary reparations (except, of course, in the form of scholarships, in which case it IS monetary reparations). White students and black students go to the same schools, take the same tests and have the same opportunities. My black neighbor in high school had no disadvantages in society - his parents were both dentists, for Christ's sake. Yet, he got preferential admission over me. How is that NOT a form of reparation?

Even if you can possibly find a way to claim that he somehow deserved that, how is it that now POST-graduate schools are allowing this? Medical schools are giving preferential admission - sorry, but when a kid went to my same college, had the same classes, same professors, same EVERYTHING as me, she has no right to get preferential admittance, especially to such competitive areas as medical schools and graduate schools.

When all other factors are essentially equal, affirmative action is more of a reparation than an equalizer - what are you equalizing?

[LightBulb]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

When all other factors are essentially equal, affirmative action is more of a reparation than an equalizer - what are you equalizing?

When all other factors are essentially equal, it's equal opportunity, not affirmative action.

Additionally, if everything else were the same (same grades, same scores, same level of recommendations, same extracurriculars), something has to be the deciding factor. Many universities push to add diversity (of races, religions, economic classes, etc.), and this is one way for them to achieve this goal.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

In this day and age, it's non-monetary reparations (except, of course, in the form of scholarships, in which case it IS monetary reparations). White students and black students go to the same schools, take the same tests and have the same opportunities. My black neighbor in high school had no disadvantages in society - his parents were both dentists, for Christ's sake. Yet, he got preferential admission over me. How is that NOT a form of reparation?

Even if you can possibly find a way to claim that he somehow deserved that, how is it that now POST-graduate schools are allowing this? Medical schools are giving preferential admission - sorry, but when a kid went to my same college, had the same classes, same professors, same EVERYTHING as me, she has no right to get preferential admittance, especially to such competitive areas as medical schools and graduate schools.

When all other factors are essentially equal, affirmative action is more of a reparation than an equalizer - what are you equalizing?

How is a scholarship a reparation?

..and that 2nd paragraph....starting to sound a lil' too whiny for my liking....

[DrPhil]

Deidre Royster's Race and the Invisible Hand speaks to this perfectly.

I predicted fantASTic's response perfectly and it's the exact same response whites who feel this way have used for 15-25 years. And every white person who uses it claims to know a black person with the same background as them, or an undeserving black person, who was given preferential admission over them. It's like the worst kind of urban legend EVER.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

i have had white people mention them to me, however, and i was very amused...i think that some white people feel that blacks still need some sort of payment for our mistreatment back in the day, or else we will retaliate when we get to a position of power. lo and behold, Nov. 4th brought that level of thinking back into their minds, and its that fear that has brought out a very ugly side of racism that a lot of us only heard about from our parents...

It's really interesting because these whites would deny that a white administration symbolized race-specific nationalism and white dominance to them. That's obvious since an administration with a black man at the head suddenly creates "fear of a black planet" and the threat that whites will lose their power position.

[OneTimeSBX]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It's really interesting because these whites would deny that a white administration symbolized race-specific nationalism and white dominance to them. That's obvious since an administration with a black man at the head suddenly creates "fear of a black planet" and the threat that whites will lose their power position.

it amuses me that those whites dont realize that if a black leader (in this case, Obama) even THOUGHT in the wrong context, someone would be on him like white on rice. i really dont think there is anything to worry about with him in office as far as retaliation...

@ preciousjeni, you are correct. they arent even in the same category. reparations was a means of repayment. affirmative action forced a level of equality among hiring minorities.