government mandated slavery

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I would gladly serve if called upon.

No you wouldn't according to SOME people, because you have a funky attitude and you have better things to do. And you don't want to be a slave... LOL



Not to mention that didn't or are you already serve/ing in our Armed Forces?

That's better than many of the folks around here...

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I would gladly serve if called upon.

But being "called upon" is not volunteerism, is it?

Contrast this idea the development of the Peace Corps, and the call for voluntary service.

Originally Posted by AKA Monet

I am really trying hard to understand how come any kind of community service for young people is not a good idea.

I imagine how non-profits suffer due to poor numbers of volunteers on their projects.

What makes this a particularly bad idea is that America is a land of liberty. That means free choice, and yes, accepting the consequences of that choice. Which means leaving open the choice NOT to participate. Most may agree that morally, serving is the "right" thing to do, but choice is fundamental part of liberty.

And accepting the consquences could be a bureaucratic nightmare in itself. You can't graduate if you don't contribute 50/100 hours? To what? You're talking about making government bigger to "enforce" volunteerism.

And I can envision the courts becoming involved over disputes between what is and what isn't community service .....

A good idea, in theory only.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DGTess

What makes this a particularly bad idea is that America is a land of liberty. That means free choice, and yes, accepting the consequences of that choice. Which means leaving open the choice NOT to participate. Most may agree that morally, serving is the "right" thing to do, but choice is fundamental part of liberty.

And accepting the consquences could be a bureaucratic nightmare in itself. You can't graduate if you don't contribute 50/100 hours? To what? You're talking about making government bigger to "enforce" volunteerism.

And I can envision the courts becoming involved over disputes between what is and what isn't community service .....

A good idea, in theory only.

Look, I think President Obama's plan is probably to shore up Americorps and/or CityYear programs for middle/high schools students. If kids want $4000 to go toward a collegiate education, they can do some odd hours of community service. If that means wearing orange vests and picking up trash at the park/street, then, that's what it means.

If that means, "candy striping"/Habitat for Humanity/clerical filing work, etc. young people really need "directions" of that of stewardship and service...

If they don't want the money or reduction in student loan debt, they don't have to give of their time during college. The Feds currently do this for other programs. If you take the money, you must do the duty. That's the incentive. The government cannot have an unengaged collecting resources citizenry. It's unfair to those citizens who are engaged in some form.

For:

“I would define liberty to be a power to do as we would be done by. The definition of liberty to be the power of doing whatever the law permits, meaning the civil laws, does not seem satisfactory.”

"If we do not lay out ourselves in the service of mankind whom should we serve?"

~President John Adams, 2nd President of the US.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Look, I think President Obama's plan is probably to shore up Americorps and/or CityYear programs for middle/high schools students. If kids want $4000 to go toward a collegiate education, they can do some odd hours of community service. If that means wearing orange vests and picking up trash at the park/street, then, that's what it means.

If that means, "candy striping"/Habitat for Humanity/clerical filing work, etc. young people really need "directions" of that of stewardship and service...

If they don't want the money or reduction in student loan debt, they don't have to give of their time during college. The Feds currently do this for other programs. If you take the money, you must do the duty. That's the incentive. The government cannot have an unengaged collecting resources citizenry. It's unfair to those citizens who are engaged in some form.

For:

“I would define liberty to be a power to do as we would be done by. The definition of liberty to be the power of doing whatever the law permits, meaning the civil laws, does not seem satisfactory.”

"If we do not lay out ourselves in the service of mankind whom should we serve?"

~President John Adams, 2nd President of the US.

It's President-Elect.

I can't wait until someone's community service involves faith-based anti-choice counseling. Or Eddie Eagle classes. Or community organizing for a cause against one of his causes.

Just sayin'

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DGTess

It's President-Elect.

I can't wait until someone's community service involves faith-based anti-choice counseling. Or Eddie Eagle classes. Or community organizing for a cause against one of his causes.

Just sayin'

Lightning bolt missed, eh?

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DGTess

It's President-Elect.

I can't wait until someone's community service involves faith-based anti-choice counseling. Or Eddie Eagle classes. Or community organizing for a cause against one of his causes.

Just sayin'

Not sure what anti-choice counseling is. But, volunteering with pro-adoption pre-natal care organizations would probably be acceptable. Obama isn't pro-abortion, he's pro-choice.

[texas*princess]

Maybe I misunderstood something, but I don't think Obama is going to come after people's 401K. Where are you gonna hide it? Under a matteress? Good luck with that... lol

Way to start an inflammatory thread (with a GREAT title by the way) and not have credible sources to back it up except someone's myspace post.

[agzg]

I'm pretty sure the middle class americans that would get the tax break are those that are hardworking.

Just because you don't make over $250K a year does not mean you are not hardworking.

Either that, or I'm one lazy-assed turd.

[OneTimeSBX]

i had mandatory community service growing up...it was called my parents! every summer my sisters and i had to volunteer and do something, instead of sit on our behinds for three months. i think it is a really good idea to do it for college tuition credit or however they want to do it...with the way things are going, a lot of these kids are going to need it for school!

[Scandia]

Not all schools require community service to graduate.

Mine encouraged it to the point that the principal thought it was more important than academics- but did not require it. It was only required to belong in NHS. Everyone knew that was the real reason why I did it.

I did not read about this till today. But I am seething. Not only I do not like being told what to do- but this would be a logistical nightmare. One of the beautiful parts of volunteer work is the CHOICE to do it. Regardless of the intent behind it- which is only up to the supreme being to judge- one needs to make the decision on your own free will. Not be imposed by the government. Forced labor is ILLEGAL.

Not to mention this would be a logistical nightmare. For the schools and for the students as well. Unless it were extremely well organized with a person in charge of this at every school, it would be very difficult to do.

Obama has not even been inaugurated- and he already did something for me to dislike him.

Don't blame me, I voted for McCain!

[KSUViolet06]

The title of this thread is quite misleading.

[DolphinChicaDDD]

Originally Posted by Scandia

Not all schools require community service to graduate.

Mine encouraged it to the point that the principal thought it was more important than academics- but did not require it. It was only required to belong in NHS. Everyone knew that was the real reason why I did it.

I did not read about this till today. But I am seething. Not only I do not like being told what to do- but this would be a logistical nightmare. One of the beautiful parts of volunteer work is the CHOICE to do it. Regardless of the intent behind it- which is only up to the supreme being to judge- one needs to make the decision on your own free will. Not be imposed by the government. Forced labor is ILLEGAL.

Not to mention this would be a logistical nightmare. For the schools and for the students as well. Unless it were extremely well organized with a person in charge of this at every school, it would be very difficult to do.

Obama has not even been inaugurated- and he already did something for me to dislike him.

Don't blame me, I voted for McCain!

Logistical nightmare? Please. The school were I previously taught had around 3,000 kids. All managed to complete their 50 hours easily and it was far from a logistical nightmare. Heres how it went: Kids get paper. Kids have paper signed by person supervising their community service hours. Kids hand in paper to homeroom teacher. Homeroom teacher enters into a spreadsheet. Community service representative for the grade level removed the kid's name from the list when service was complete. Done.

Currently, I'm teaching in a international baccalaureate school and part of the program requires kids to do 150 hours of CAS (creativity, action, service) over two years. There are only 300 kids in the program, but the same basic method as above applies. No problems.

Community service is great for kids, particuarly those who are high risk. I can't even count the number of kids who were on their way to dropping out, joining gangs, or worse who after their required "forced labor" turned their lives around and became productive students and members of society.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DolphinChicaDDD

Community service is great for kids, particuarly those who are high risk. I can't even count the number of kids who were on their way to dropping out, joining gangs, or worse who after their required "forced labor" turned their lives around and became productive students and members of society.

Which is why a lot of juvenile rehabilitation/correction programs use community service in this manner. The best way to learn responsibility is to be responsible for someone else (I may have posted this before...can't remember).

[fantASTic]

I think the big problem here is that we in the US have traditionally reserved community service for two reasons, these being:

1). Someone has a genuine desire to help others, or

2). Someone gets in trouble with the law and receives community service as a PUNISHMENT.

When I think of someone being mandated to do community service as a requirement of anything that is mandatory, such as high school, then it comes off as a punishment. College is different because people don't have to go to college - it is a privilege. However, since children are forced to be in high school until 16, I don't like rules and requirements that force them to do more. If it was just a goal, no big deal...but if there are punishments for not doing it, then that needs to be looked at.

A lot of people have been saying stuff like, "It's community service! That is great for the country so why shouldn't this be okay? You should want to help the community!" That sounds the same to me as saying, "Why don't you like the Patriot Act? Do you have something to hide?" It doesn't matter whether you do or don't, or whether service is beneficial or not. It comes down to personal freedoms.

I voted for Obama.

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

When I think of someone being mandated to do community service as a requirement of anything that is mandatory, such as high school, then it comes off as a punishment. College is different because people don't have to go to college - it is a privilege. However, since children are forced to be in high school until 16, I don't like rules and requirements that force them to do more. If it was just a goal, no big deal...but if there are punishments for not doing it, then that needs to be looked at.

Um high school is all about requirements you need certain grades to pass a class and move up and graduate, its not forced you can choose not to go to class or do your homework or take the tests and as a result not graduate. You would also have that option with community service. I can't understand why the idea of having young adults do community service is a bad thing???