If you could design an AI program.........

[DSTRen13]

Honestly, not trying to be stupid here, but one thing I've been confused by --- I keep reading all these critiques about "sorority shopping" if a woman looks at more than one NPC for AI, but then undergrads are bashed if they don't give consideration to every NPC group available on their campus?

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

Honestly, not trying to be stupid here, but one thing I've been confused by --- I keep reading all these critiques about "sorority shopping" if a woman looks at more than one NPC for AI, but then undergrads are bashed if they don't give consideration to every NPC group available on their campus?

Comparing collegiate recruitment to Alumnae Initiation is like comparing apples and oranges.

They are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum and one should not even compare the two.

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

Honestly, not trying to be stupid here, but one thing I've been confused by --- I keep reading all these critiques about "sorority shopping" if a woman looks at more than one NPC for AI, but then undergrads are bashed if they don't give consideration to every NPC group available on their campus?

AI is much different than NPC recruitment in college. Completely different concept.

[SWTXBelle]

Undergraduate recruitment is based on the concept of mutual selection. Anyone who meets the requirements may go through recruitment.

Alumnae Initiation is, as far as I know, considered by all NPCs as an honour bestowed on select women. It is NOT based on mutual selection. At least, not in the same sense.

[honeychile]

There are a lot of great ideas here! I find myself agreeing in part with almost everyone, even though I know how we do AI. One difference is that all Alumnae Initiates are in a chapter designated for them exclusively, not as a member of the Wassamatta U chapter or such.

And yes, there is a big difference between Honorary Initiates and Alumnae Initiates. My chapter's housemother was initiated upon retirement, and the members of the original local which became my chapter were also offered initiation - but those were two separate "catagories".

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by honeychile

And yes, there is a big difference between Honorary Initiates and Alumnae Initiates. My chapter's housemother was initiated upon retirement, and the members of the original local which became my chapter were also offered initiation - but those were two separate "catagories".

Although in some groups it's not as clear cut. In my org for example I think the distinction is pretty hard to decipher.

I think it began when Pi Phi had alum initiates as "honorary initiates" at Convention (a process that still continues, although they're now called AIs for the most part from what I can tell).

Pi Phi also does AI for A) housemothers B) siblings/daughters/etc of prominent members C) advisors D) new chapters - every new chapter has several alum initiates to boost the volunteerism for the new chapter.

W&L was one school that did require a faculty advisor... it so happened that Pi Phi always had an alum on the faculty that we could draw from, but I don't believe that was the case for all the sororities on campus... In fact I'm not sure it was true for anyone except us and Kappa. Although I could be totally wrong on that. Oh, and there was a faculty Phi Mu who served as faculty Panhel advisor since her chapter wasn't there.

At W&L, for that matter, very few of the chapters had active alum advisors whatsoever because there were so few people to draw on. The nearest alum clubs, in Roanoke and Charlottesville, were pretty much always focused on VA Tech and UVA respectively. So a lot of chapters were advised on an official sorority level (not campus/faculty level) by women in Northern Virginia - three hours away. So our faculty advisor (who was also chair of our House Corp effectively served as our AAC chair as well for two of my four years at W&L as well). There were alum initiates from the founding of chapter in 1992 who still lived in town, but they were nowhere to be found hrm. I did find that by my senior year it seemed some women from our founding class were moving back to Lexington to settle and were becoming very involved with the chapter - that was good thing.

Anyway the point being that a lot of rural schools have really limited options with advisors.

Also I think a lot of times the collegiate chapter doesn't have much of a choice about initiating alums. At least in my experience. The chapter gets to take a vote, but in most cases refusing to initiate the selected individual (who has already been vetted by the alum club by the time it gets sent to the chapter) would be extremely awkward and uncomfortable and make for hard feelings. Especially, as it often is, if it is a family member of an advisor or something.

All that said, I would have absolutely no problem with widespread AI, I don't think, if we could put into place the same policies and precautions that NPHC currently has. Although I do believe that that change would fundamentally change the character of the NPC and I don't know if it will ever happen. Right now, most sororities and their respective alum clubs don't have time or preparation to do the kind of process that NPHC currently does with their grad membership. For most sororities, the problem of the nascent artificial demand for AI that I believe GC in part or whole created was easier solved by restricting or limiting their AI programs rather than creating a whole new side of membership intake like NPHC has. Which is understandable.

I also think it would be prudent at some point if these programs continue to grow and be as controversial as they are becoming if the NPCs could come together to make some unanimous agreements about how they will work. For the sake of all our organizations.

On a more personal note, I would really prefer if all AIs to my own org were required to have a college degree. Although I realize there are some situations where exceptions can and maybe should be made (housemothers don't necessarily have college degrees, nor do outstanding mother volunteers, etc). I just feel that my org is an org for college-educated women.

[cutie_cat_4ever]

Given the fact I'm not in a sorority, I did considered AI at one point just because I enjoy being a mentor/leader to girls. Which comes to my next point...

IMO, I think organizations should request a "resume" from each potential AI, with a list of college orgs or leadership positions they have participated in the past (if they attended college). That way, you can tell who is willing to put in an effort in the sorority, and who are coming in just for the letters.

Also it would be nice to have them go through a series of interviews (like why you didn't join a sorority in college and what can you do for the chapter etc) , anywhere from an Alumni Chapter President to high ups. That way, you can effective see who is a good potential AI and who is not.

I've heard stories that AIs put more effort into their sorority than collegiate who have graduated an moved on.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Also I think a lot of times the collegiate chapter doesn't have much of a choice about initiating alums. At least in my experience. The chapter gets to take a vote, but in most cases refusing to initiate the selected individual (who has already been vetted by the alum club by the time it gets sent to the chapter) would be extremely awkward and uncomfortable and make for hard feelings. Especially, as it often is, if it is a family member of an advisor or something.

It seem to me that this highlights the distinction (or what should be the distinction) between AI and honorary initiation.

For us at least (granted, not NPC or an NIC fraternity), only a collegiate chapter, the National Executive Committee or the National Assembly can initiate. A chapter can, by 3/4 vote, choose to initiate an honorary member; that decision has to be approved in writing by the province governor. A chapter cannot initiate more than two honoraries in one year unless the National President gives written permission otherwise. So far as I know, the honorary initiate is never informed that honorary initiation is even being considered until after the province governor has given approval -- there's no seeking it or vetting candidates for it, other than the chapter's own decision-making.

Per our national website, we've initiated 1,700 honorary members in our 110 years -- an average of 15+ per year. Some of them would have already been brothers who were made honorary members of a chapter other than the chapter that first initiated them.

We did once allow alumni chapters to initiate, but that was done away with some decades ago. And we don't usually have the advisor problem. While we are always required to have a faculty advisor, there will usually be brothers on the music faculty. We do allow faculty/staff members of the sheltering institution to pledge and be initiated as collegiate members; they can then immediately transfer to alum status. If we colonize somewhere that there is not a brother to serve as advisor to the faculty, then the man who serves as advisor to the colony is initiated along with the colony.

I'll admit that I like the way we have it now. I have no problem with occasional and appropriate honorary initiations, or with allowing the occasional initiation of faculty/staff members. But otherwise, I think a brother should pledge and be initiated in college.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

It seem to me that this highlights the distinction (or what should be the distinction) between AI and honorary initiation.

For us at least (granted, not NPC or an NIC fraternity), only a collegiate chapter, the National Executive Committee or the National Assembly can initiate. A chapter can, by 3/4 vote, choose to initiate an honorary member; that decision has to be approved in writing by the province governor. A chapter cannot initiate more than two honoraries in one year unless the National President gives written permission otherwise. So far as I know, the honorary initiate is never informed that honorary initiation is even being considered until after the province governor has given approval -- there's no seeking it or vetting candidates for it, other than the chapter's own decision-making.

Per our national website, we've initiated 1,700 honorary members in our 110 years -- an average of 15+ per year. Some of them would have already been brothers who were made honorary members of a chapter other than the chapter that first initiated them.

We did once allow alumni chapters to initiate, but that was done away with some decades ago. And we don't usually have the advisor problem. While we are always required to have a faculty advisor, there will usually be brothers on the music faculty. We do allow faculty/staff members of the sheltering institution to pledge and be initiated as collegiate members; they can then immediately transfer to alum status. If we colonize somewhere that there is not a brother to serve as advisor to the faculty, then the man who serves as advisor to the colony is initiated along with the colony.

I'll admit that I like the way we have it now. I have no problem with occasional and appropriate honorary initiations, or with allowing the occasional initiation of faculty/staff members. But otherwise, I think a brother should pledge and be initiated in college.

Interesting. Pi Phi is the same. Only a collegiate chapter or Grand Council can initiate. This strikes me, again, as one of the main distinctions between the NPC AI programs and the NPHC graduate intake programs. Alum clubs in the NPC can't, or at least generally can't, initiate members. So they have to rely on the collegiate chapters to initiate. In the past, when most AIs/honorary initiations were either occurring A) at convention B) at the installation of a new chapter C) by a chapter honoring a volunteer/advisor/house mother, that was not really a problem. Now that alum clubs are selecting AIs... it is a more awkward situation.

I'll go on and say that when my chapter initiated an AI many of the members were confused about why we were doing it. I was President at that point and had to explain what AI even was. We approved it because she was the daughter of our regional advisor and it was an honor for us to be asked to initiate her instead of another chapter, and because the Northern Virginia Alum Club gave her their strong recommendation. But many members were confused about why we were being asked to initiate her, what an AI was, why we should do this, etc. It was not really a case where this person had volunteered extensively for Pi Phi, or that our chapter knew this person or anything; moreso it was a case where the person felt a strong affinity for Pi Phi, being a multiple legacy, and wished to get involved. Incidentally, our house mother was already a collegiate initiate of Pi Phi so there wasn't any need to AI her.