Is Obama the Anti-Christ?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Palin's reference was to Bill Ayers, one of the founders of the group the Weather Underground. Its members were blamed for several bombings, including a pipe bomb in San Francisco that killed a police officer and injured another. Obama, who was a child when the group was active, has denounced Ayers' radical views and activities.

I bet Sarah Palin doesn't know Bill Ayers from Roy Ayers.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I bet Sarah Palin doesn't know Bill Ayers from Roy Ayers.

One has to wonder how much Obama knew to be associated at all with the guy.

Would you serve on a committee with a person who had never disavowed his involvement with domestic bombings and a terrorist organization?

Would you accept campaign donations from him?

I don't think I would, but maybe I'm uptight like that.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

One has to wonder how much Obama knew to be associated at all with the guy.

Would you serve on a committee with a person who had never disavowed his involvement with domestic bombings and a terrorist organization?

Would you accept campaign donations from him?

I don't think I would, but maybe I'm uptight like that.

Do you get to choose your fellow committee members? If you think you can do more good by being on a committee despite the history of one of the members, then by resigning or refusing and not doing anything, do you?

Like it or not the man teaches at a university and is part of society there, you have to associate with him or you associate with no one. And then you get nothing done. The guy isn't a golf buddy.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Do you get to choose your fellow committee members? If you think you can do more good by being on a committee despite the history of one of the members, then by resigning or refusing and not doing anything, do you?

Like it or not the man teaches at a university and is part of society there, you have to associate with him or you associate with no one. And then you get nothing done. The guy isn't a golf buddy.

Looking at the committee and its work over time, I'm pretty sure I would have declined for a lot of different reasons. I think it would have been reasonable for Obama to decline as well, simply based on Ayers participation.

I don't think that doing good work in Chicago required working on committees with Ayers or allowing him to host fundraisers for you or donate to your campaign.

Ayers and Dohrn are not mainstream figures. Comfortably working with them says something about Obama.

I'm not sure there is a right wing equivalent, maybe Eric Robert Rudolph? 40 years from now, would you be on committees with him?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

One has to wonder how much Obama knew to be associated at all with the guy.

Would you serve on a committee with a person who had never disavowed his involvement with domestic bombings and a terrorist organization?

Would you accept campaign donations from him?

I don't think I would, but maybe I'm uptight like that.

I'm sure he knew everything about Bill Ayers. Hell, I'm 27, never been to Chicago in my life, and yet I'm quite familiar with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While he and his wife may not be in the "mainstream," if you're involved in any left-wing politics at all, let alone in Chicago, you've definitely heard of them. If you're active in community organization as far as education goes, you've heard of Bill Ayers. The man has written several books, so it's not as if he's in a bunker biting his toenails and planning the New World Order. In fact, he and his wife were featured in that bastion of the Radical Left, the AARP Quarterly, in November 2001.

Obama, as long as I can remember, has separated himself from association with Bill Ayers's activities in the Weather Underground. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't David Horowitz an "associate" of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers during those days? Is it okay to listen to and associate with him now that he's a conservative?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm sure he knew everything about Bill Ayers. Hell, I'm 27, never been to Chicago in my life, and yet I'm quite familiar with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While he and his wife may not be in the "mainstream," if you're involved in any left-wing politics at all, let alone in Chicago, you've definitely heard of them. If you're active in community organization as far as education goes, you've heard of Bill Ayers. The man has written several books, so it's not as if he's in a bunker biting his toenails and planning the New World Order. In fact, he and his wife were featured in that bastion of the Radical Left, the AARP Quarterly, in November 2001.

Obama, as long as I can remember, has separated himself from association with Bill Ayers's activities in the Weather Underground. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't David Horowitz an "associate" of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers during those days? Is it okay to listen to and associate with him now that he's a conservative?

I suppose what would matter most to me in associating with people in the present is how earnestly they seems to have repudiated their violent pasts.

And that's what makes Ayers and Dohrn, maybe especially, so complicated.

ETA: It looks like Horowitz's connections were Black Panther, just glancing at Wikipedia.

One a different note, if we wanted a really excellent study in "white privilege" maybe contrasting what happened to most figures involved with the Black Panthers and MOVE with the current status of the former Weathermen would prove illustrative. (Or maybe it would just show the benefits of privilege generally.) I wonder why we don't hear more about that.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

ETA: It looks like Horowitz's connections were Black Panther, just glancing at Wikipedia.

One a different note, if we wanted a really excellent study in "white privilege" maybe contrasting what happened to most figures involved with the Black Panthers and MOVE with the current status of the former Weathermen would prove illustrative. (Or maybe it would just show the benefits of privilege generally.) I wonder why we don't hear more about that.

His connections were primarily with the Black Panthers, but they definitely ran in the same circles, and had similar aims. In his book (gasp! I've read it!), he mentions being in the same room with Dohrn when she allegedly praised Manson and the Family. Other Weathermen come up as well; based on that, I'm going to call him an "associate."

The former Weathermen were, without a doubt, beneficiaries of class and race privilege. Ayers's father was CEO of Commonwealth Edison, and it was his connections with Trustees of Northwestern that got his daughter-in-law a job at a law school, despite the fact that her status as a convict prevented her from joining the bar. All of the major players--including Kathy Boudin--came from wealthy families, who put up their bail, provided hiding places, and homes upon their release. It's easier to rehabilitate yourself when you already have a cushy place in society. Also, you can't forget that while the Weathermen were all college educated, many of the Panthers weren't. Most of the Panthers who actually survived haven't done too badly for themselves once they got out of jail.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

His connections were primarily with the Black Panthers, but they definitely ran in the same circles, and had similar aims. In his book (gasp! I've read it!), he mentions being in the same room with Dohrn when she allegedly praised Manson and the Family. Other Weathermen come up as well; based on that, I'm going to call him an "associate."

The former Weathermen were, without a doubt, beneficiaries of class and race privilege. Ayers's father was CEO of Commonwealth Edison, and it was his connections with Trustees of Northwestern that got his daughter-in-law a job at a law school, despite the fact that her status as a convict prevented her from joining the bar. All of the major players--including Kathy Boudin--came from wealthy families, who put up their bail, provided hiding places, and homes upon their release. It's easier to rehabilitate yourself when you already have a cushy place in society. Also, you can't forget that while the Weathermen were all college educated, many of the Panthers weren't. Most of the Panthers who actually survived haven't done too badly for themselves once they got out of jail.

You can call Horowitz whatever you want, but I think you have to admit that his culpability with the Weathermen is much less than Dohrn or Ayers. And his repudiation of radical violent action much clearer.

So, privileged is privilege? My point is just that the illustrations people use to make their points are often really convenient. Palin's kids are presented as an example and leftist radicals not discussed as much.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

You can call Horowitz whatever you want, but I think you have to admit that his culpability with the Weathermen is much less than Dohrn or Ayers. And his repudiation of radical action much clearer.

So, privileged is privilege? My point is just that the illustrations people use to make their points are often really convenient. Palin's kids are presented as an example and leftist radicals not discussed as much.

I never said otherwise, did I? No, I didn't. Clearly, since I've read several of Horowitz's books written since his conversion, I am quite aware of his "repudiation of radical action." Also, since my college campus was impacted in 2001 because of his actions, I think I'm pretty familiar with his MO.

Anyway, back to the point at hand. I actually think the extreme right, in a period of weakness and desperation, is grabbing at whatever will shock Middle America. Like it did 6 or so months ago when Hillary's camp brought it up, this revival of the Ayers story isn't going to last long.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

One has to wonder how much Obama knew to be associated at all with the guy.

Would you serve on a committee with a person who had never disavowed his involvement with domestic bombings and a terrorist organization?

Would you accept campaign donations from him?

I don't think I would, but maybe I'm uptight like that.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm sure he knew everything about Bill Ayers. Hell, I'm 27, never been to Chicago in my life, and yet I'm quite familiar with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While he and his wife may not be in the "mainstream," if you're involved in any left-wing politics at all, let alone in Chicago, you've definitely heard of them. If you're active in community organization as far as education goes, you've heard of Bill Ayers. The man has written several books, so it's not as if he's in a bunker biting his toenails and planning the New World Order. In fact, he and his wife were featured in that bastion of the Radical Left, the AARP Quarterly, in November 2001.

Obama, as long as I can remember, has separated himself from association with Bill Ayers's activities in the Weather Underground. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't David Horowitz an "associate" of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers during those days? Is it okay to listen to and associate with him now that he's a conservative?

The response quoted from the Obama campaign after Palin's comment seems funny in light of our conversation yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...ism.charge.cnn

[ajuhdg]

Whover said he's much further left than he's marketing himself, I think was dead on. I know it's a stretch, but keeping with the theme of this thread, I wouldn't be suprised if B.O. legalized terrorist training camps in the US. That certainly is a 'change' from what we've had!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

Whover said he's much further left than he's marketing himself, I think was dead on. I know it's a stretch, but keeping with the theme of this thread, I wouldn't be suprised if B.O. legalized terrorist training camps in the US. That certainly is a 'change' from what we've had!

Right.