Is Obama the Anti-Christ?

[DaemonSeid]

CARSON, Calif., - Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin on Saturday accused Democrat Barack Obama of "palling around with terrorists" because of an association with a former '60s radical, a harsh attack on his character that she repeated at three separate campaign events without substantiation.

Palin's reference was to Bill Ayers, one of the founders of the group the Weather Underground. Its members were blamed for several bombings, including a pipe bomb in San Francisco that killed a police officer and injured another. Obama, who was a child when the group was active, has denounced Ayers' radical views and activities.

While it is known that Obama and Ayers live in the same Chicago neighborhood, served on a charity board together and had a fleeting political connection, there is no evidence that they ever palled around. And it's simply wrong to suggest that they were associated while Ayers was committing terrorist acts.

Nonetheless, Palin made the comments at three appearances in separate states.

"Our opponent ... is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough, that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," said told donors at a private airport in Englewood, Colo. Palin echoed the line later in Carson, Calif., and Costa Mesa, Calif.

Falling behind Obama in polls, the Republican campaign plans to make attacks on Obama's character a centerpiece of candidate John McCain's message in the final weeks of the presidential race. Coming late in the campaign, Palin's remark could be particularly incendiary, either backfiring on McCain or knocking Obama off his focus on the troubled economy — or both.

The campaign was clearly prepared to raise the Ayers' connection to Obama. In addition to Palin's comments at her appearances Saturday, the McCain campaign distributed Palin's comments to reporters.

"This is not a man who sees America like you and I see America," Palin said. "We see America as a force of good in this world. We see an America of exceptionalism."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081005/...H3IYxx1ylsnwcF

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Palin's reference was to Bill Ayers, one of the founders of the group the Weather Underground. Its members were blamed for several bombings, including a pipe bomb in San Francisco that killed a police officer and injured another. Obama, who was a child when the group was active, has denounced Ayers' radical views and activities.

I bet Sarah Palin doesn't know Bill Ayers from Roy Ayers.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I bet Sarah Palin doesn't know Bill Ayers from Roy Ayers.

One has to wonder how much Obama knew to be associated at all with the guy.

Would you serve on a committee with a person who had never disavowed his involvement with domestic bombings and a terrorist organization?

Would you accept campaign donations from him?

I don't think I would, but maybe I'm uptight like that.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

One has to wonder how much Obama knew to be associated at all with the guy.

Would you serve on a committee with a person who had never disavowed his involvement with domestic bombings and a terrorist organization?

Would you accept campaign donations from him?

I don't think I would, but maybe I'm uptight like that.

Do you get to choose your fellow committee members? If you think you can do more good by being on a committee despite the history of one of the members, then by resigning or refusing and not doing anything, do you?

Like it or not the man teaches at a university and is part of society there, you have to associate with him or you associate with no one. And then you get nothing done. The guy isn't a golf buddy.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Do you get to choose your fellow committee members? If you think you can do more good by being on a committee despite the history of one of the members, then by resigning or refusing and not doing anything, do you?

Like it or not the man teaches at a university and is part of society there, you have to associate with him or you associate with no one. And then you get nothing done. The guy isn't a golf buddy.

Looking at the committee and its work over time, I'm pretty sure I would have declined for a lot of different reasons. I think it would have been reasonable for Obama to decline as well, simply based on Ayers participation.

I don't think that doing good work in Chicago required working on committees with Ayers or allowing him to host fundraisers for you or donate to your campaign.

Ayers and Dohrn are not mainstream figures. Comfortably working with them says something about Obama.

I'm not sure there is a right wing equivalent, maybe Eric Robert Rudolph? 40 years from now, would you be on committees with him?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

One has to wonder how much Obama knew to be associated at all with the guy.

Would you serve on a committee with a person who had never disavowed his involvement with domestic bombings and a terrorist organization?

Would you accept campaign donations from him?

I don't think I would, but maybe I'm uptight like that.

I'm sure he knew everything about Bill Ayers. Hell, I'm 27, never been to Chicago in my life, and yet I'm quite familiar with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While he and his wife may not be in the "mainstream," if you're involved in any left-wing politics at all, let alone in Chicago, you've definitely heard of them. If you're active in community organization as far as education goes, you've heard of Bill Ayers. The man has written several books, so it's not as if he's in a bunker biting his toenails and planning the New World Order. In fact, he and his wife were featured in that bastion of the Radical Left, the AARP Quarterly, in November 2001.

Obama, as long as I can remember, has separated himself from association with Bill Ayers's activities in the Weather Underground. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't David Horowitz an "associate" of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers during those days? Is it okay to listen to and associate with him now that he's a conservative?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm sure he knew everything about Bill Ayers. Hell, I'm 27, never been to Chicago in my life, and yet I'm quite familiar with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While he and his wife may not be in the "mainstream," if you're involved in any left-wing politics at all, let alone in Chicago, you've definitely heard of them. If you're active in community organization as far as education goes, you've heard of Bill Ayers. The man has written several books, so it's not as if he's in a bunker biting his toenails and planning the New World Order. In fact, he and his wife were featured in that bastion of the Radical Left, the AARP Quarterly, in November 2001.

Obama, as long as I can remember, has separated himself from association with Bill Ayers's activities in the Weather Underground. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't David Horowitz an "associate" of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers during those days? Is it okay to listen to and associate with him now that he's a conservative?

I suppose what would matter most to me in associating with people in the present is how earnestly they seems to have repudiated their violent pasts.

And that's what makes Ayers and Dohrn, maybe especially, so complicated.

ETA: It looks like Horowitz's connections were Black Panther, just glancing at Wikipedia.

One a different note, if we wanted a really excellent study in "white privilege" maybe contrasting what happened to most figures involved with the Black Panthers and MOVE with the current status of the former Weathermen would prove illustrative. (Or maybe it would just show the benefits of privilege generally.) I wonder why we don't hear more about that.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

ETA: It looks like Horowitz's connections were Black Panther, just glancing at Wikipedia.

One a different note, if we wanted a really excellent study in "white privilege" maybe contrasting what happened to most figures involved with the Black Panthers and MOVE with the current status of the former Weathermen would prove illustrative. (Or maybe it would just show the benefits of privilege generally.) I wonder why we don't hear more about that.

His connections were primarily with the Black Panthers, but they definitely ran in the same circles, and had similar aims. In his book (gasp! I've read it!), he mentions being in the same room with Dohrn when she allegedly praised Manson and the Family. Other Weathermen come up as well; based on that, I'm going to call him an "associate."

The former Weathermen were, without a doubt, beneficiaries of class and race privilege. Ayers's father was CEO of Commonwealth Edison, and it was his connections with Trustees of Northwestern that got his daughter-in-law a job at a law school, despite the fact that her status as a convict prevented her from joining the bar. All of the major players--including Kathy Boudin--came from wealthy families, who put up their bail, provided hiding places, and homes upon their release. It's easier to rehabilitate yourself when you already have a cushy place in society. Also, you can't forget that while the Weathermen were all college educated, many of the Panthers weren't. Most of the Panthers who actually survived haven't done too badly for themselves once they got out of jail.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

His connections were primarily with the Black Panthers, but they definitely ran in the same circles, and had similar aims. In his book (gasp! I've read it!), he mentions being in the same room with Dohrn when she allegedly praised Manson and the Family. Other Weathermen come up as well; based on that, I'm going to call him an "associate."

The former Weathermen were, without a doubt, beneficiaries of class and race privilege. Ayers's father was CEO of Commonwealth Edison, and it was his connections with Trustees of Northwestern that got his daughter-in-law a job at a law school, despite the fact that her status as a convict prevented her from joining the bar. All of the major players--including Kathy Boudin--came from wealthy families, who put up their bail, provided hiding places, and homes upon their release. It's easier to rehabilitate yourself when you already have a cushy place in society. Also, you can't forget that while the Weathermen were all college educated, many of the Panthers weren't. Most of the Panthers who actually survived haven't done too badly for themselves once they got out of jail.

You can call Horowitz whatever you want, but I think you have to admit that his culpability with the Weathermen is much less than Dohrn or Ayers. And his repudiation of radical violent action much clearer.

So, privileged is privilege? My point is just that the illustrations people use to make their points are often really convenient. Palin's kids are presented as an example and leftist radicals not discussed as much.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

One has to wonder how much Obama knew to be associated at all with the guy.

Would you serve on a committee with a person who had never disavowed his involvement with domestic bombings and a terrorist organization?

Would you accept campaign donations from him?

I don't think I would, but maybe I'm uptight like that.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm sure he knew everything about Bill Ayers. Hell, I'm 27, never been to Chicago in my life, and yet I'm quite familiar with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While he and his wife may not be in the "mainstream," if you're involved in any left-wing politics at all, let alone in Chicago, you've definitely heard of them. If you're active in community organization as far as education goes, you've heard of Bill Ayers. The man has written several books, so it's not as if he's in a bunker biting his toenails and planning the New World Order. In fact, he and his wife were featured in that bastion of the Radical Left, the AARP Quarterly, in November 2001.

Obama, as long as I can remember, has separated himself from association with Bill Ayers's activities in the Weather Underground. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't David Horowitz an "associate" of Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers during those days? Is it okay to listen to and associate with him now that he's a conservative?

The response quoted from the Obama campaign after Palin's comment seems funny in light of our conversation yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...ism.charge.cnn

[ajuhdg]

Whover said he's much further left than he's marketing himself, I think was dead on. I know it's a stretch, but keeping with the theme of this thread, I wouldn't be suprised if B.O. legalized terrorist training camps in the US. That certainly is a 'change' from what we've had!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

Whover said he's much further left than he's marketing himself, I think was dead on. I know it's a stretch, but keeping with the theme of this thread, I wouldn't be suprised if B.O. legalized terrorist training camps in the US. That certainly is a 'change' from what we've had!

Right.