Pastors and Politics

[PANTHERTEKE]

I don't believe a religious leader should be talking about politics or endorsing certain candidates. This pisses me the f*ck off, and it's mostly Liberal and Democratic "pastors" who do this (just stating the facts).

If I wanted to hear about politics I'd turn on the news, I don't want to hear that from the pulpit. Religious leaders who do this really lose my respect.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I don't believe a religious leader should be talking about politics or endorsing certain candidates. This pisses me the f*ck off, and it's mostly Liberal and Democratic "pastors" who do this (just stating the facts).

If I wanted to hear about politics I'd turn on the news, I don't want to hear that from the pulpit. Religious leaders who do this really lose my respect.

A huge part of my faith is social justice, which means we talk politics. We even have a presence in DC and when bills are going through of interest to us, we know about it. However we do not and will not candidate endorse. If my religion stopped having a focus on social justice I'd leave it. My pastor and other community members have a peaceful protest every Friday night where they meet at Friendship Square and some people do bring signs or get into debates over the war, but he is doing it as an individual, not my pastor (though it is a small town and everyone knows he is the pastor of my church).

[SWTXBelle]

Hmmmm . . .my husband is an Anglican priest AND a political columnist. I will say, however, that his byline doesn't mention his religious work. It's just a case of his wearing two different hats - he also doesn't preach about politics. His sermons are based on the scripture reading for the day.
Anglicans have enough internal politics of their own to fuel the post-service discussions - issues, such as abortion, might be a topic, but not specific candidates.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Hmmmm . . .my husband is an Anglican priest AND a political columnist. I will say, however, that his byline doesn't mention his religious work. It's just a case of his wearing two different hats - he also doesn't preach about politics. His sermons are based on the scripture reading for the day.
Anglicans have enough internal politics of their own to fuel the post-service discussions - issues, such as abortion, might be a topic, but not specific candidates.

I would have no problem with what your husband is doing. My problem is when the person steps onto the pulpit and says "Vote for XYZ Candidate."

When I was an active church member at my church in Boston, I had several political conversations with the leaders of the church; they were intelligent and thoughtful people and always had something interesting to say. If they had stepped up to the lectern and preached those beliefs to the church members, that's where I would have drawn the line.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Don't forget the Catholic church whose American leaders announced during the last election that if a Catholic supported someone who was pro-choice that they could not take communion?

I don't think that this stopped anyone who voted for Kerry (including Kerry himself) from taking Communion. I haven't been turned away yet.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

That's getting into something a little more nuanced than endorsing a candidate. The ROMAN Catholic church (which is the one I assume you mean) was simply following through on their church doctrine concerning their sacraments. It's not as though they made up some arbitrary rule just to punish those who supported a pro-abortion candidate.

I am not Roman Catholic, and I disagree with some of their conditions for communion, but the political aspect of enforcing those strictures is not as clear-cut as out and out recommending a candidate, or calling on members to NOT support a candidate.

It raises an interesting question - do y'all have a problem with churches delineating their doctrines during an election season? For example, pro-life parishes, or those who act as "sanctuary" parishes for illegal aliens, those against capital punishment, etc.? (I am reminded of the Unitarian church where my sister was married - they had a poster with their goals for the parish for the year. #1? Legalize marijuana. )

I have no problem with this. When I was in law school I went to a very politically active church. I think these are policy aims rather than a direct endorsement.

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I would have no problem with what your husband is doing. My problem is when the person steps onto the pulpit and says "Vote for XYZ Candidate."

When I was an active church member at my church in Boston, I had several political conversations with the leaders of the church; they were intelligent and thoughtful people and always had something interesting to say. If they had stepped up to the lectern and preached those beliefs to the church members, that's where I would have drawn the line.

Totally agree with you. I've been dating a pastor's kid for a long time now and it's absurd to think that priests/pastors/rabbis don't have political views at all. I think most people who have read the Bible have their political views influenced by it so I can only imagine what it would do to someone whose life revolves around the book. My problem is when religious leaders exhort their congregations to vote for someone. If a parishioner asked their priest who they were voting for and the priest answered, that wouldn't even bother me, but I certainly don't want to hear a homily about why I must vote for a candidate.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

My problem is when the person steps onto the pulpit and says "Vote for XYZ Candidate."

I agree. Do you think there is a difference between what you said and someone who says "I am going to vote for so-and-so."

[kstar]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

it's mostly Liberal and Democratic "pastors" who do this (just stating the facts).

Seriously? Billy Graham, Bob Jones, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson ring a bell?

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by kstar

Seriously? Billy Graham, Bob Jones, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson ring a bell?

Billy Graham? Really? You do realize that both of the Clintons have praised him and seen him as a spiritual advisor as have both Bush presidents, don't you?

[SWTXBelle]

Billy Graham really doesn't belong in that group. One thing I admire about him is his ability to rise above partisanship.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Billy Graham really doesn't belong in that group. One thing I admire about him is his ability to rise above partisanship.

Billy Graham came out for Vietnam and the Gulf War, to me that is encouraging people to vote for candidates that support those. He also supposedly became friends with Kim Jong Il, and called him a "different kind of communitst." To me- a very political move.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by kstar

Billy Graham came out for Vietnam and the Gulf War, to me that is encouraging people to vote for candidates that support those. He also supposedly became friends with Kim Jong Il, and called him a "different kind of communitst." To me- a very political move.

Are you really suggesting that no member of the clergy should talk about politics at all? Not just in the pulpit but ever?

And where do you get that he "supported the Gulf War," especially in such a way as to constitute an endorsement of candidates that supported it (especially given that it was over before any presidential election)? The fact that Bush asked him for advice on the "just war" doctrine?

Yes, Billy Graham was very anticommunist, the context in which his comment about Kim Il Sung (not Kim Jong Il) and his support of the Vietnam War have to be understood. Exactly how did that support equal endorsement of a candidate? One can certainly take sides on an issue without implicitly endorsing any candidate who shares the same position. Or are you suggesting that everyone who speaks out against the Iraq War is endorsing Ralph Nader?

The reality is he made it a policy early on not to endorse any candidate or party, and he has never done so.

[SWTXBelle]

Not to mention - there were Democrats who supported both Vietnam and the Gulf War (s?). LBJ, anyone? Why, bless my buttons, I believe Hillary herself (among others) voted for the Gulf War, part deux, even though she later changed her mind.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Are you really suggesting that no member of the clergy should talk about politics at all? Not just in the pulpit but ever?

And where do you get that he "supported the Gulf War," especially in such a way as to constitute an endorsement of candidates that supported it (especially given that it was over before any presidential election)? The fact that Bush asked him for advice on the "just war" doctrine?

Yes, Billy Graham was very anticommunist, the context in which his comment about Kim Il Sung (not Kim Jong Il) and his support of the Vietnam War have to be understood. Exactly how did that support equal endorsement of a candidate? One can certainly take sides on an issue without implicitly endorsing any candidate who shares the same position. Or are you suggesting that everyone who speaks out against the Iraq War is endorsing Ralph Nader?

The reality is he made it a policy early on not to endorse any candidate or party, and he has never done so.

I perhaps agree that Graham did not endorse any candidate/party outright, but I still believe that he strongly encouraged his congregation or tv audience to vote with the candidates that supported his personal issues. That is endorsement enough for me. (However, yes, it was Kim Il Sung.)

However, I think a Pastor has his first amendment right just like anyone else. Billy Graham could warmonger all he wanted.

I only took issue with PANTHERTEKE stating that only liberal or Democratic pastors took political stances, when there are religious icons on both sides of the aisle speaking out.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by kstar

Seriously? Billy Graham, Bob Jones, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson ring a bell?

Don't forget the Catholic church whose American leaders announced during the last election that if a Catholic supported someone who was pro-choice that they could not take communion?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I don't believe a religious leader should be talking about politics or endorsing certain candidates. This pisses me the f*ck off, and it's mostly Liberal and Democratic "pastors" who do this (just stating the facts).

No, you're not stating facts. It happens often enough on both sides of the church aisle.

Originally Posted by kstar

Seriously? Billy Graham, Bob Jones, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson ring a bell?

As others have noted, Billy Graham has always been noted for not getting into politics or endorsing candidates. Nor do I recall Oral Roberts getting political or endorsing candidates -- saying God would take him if people didn't send money, yes; endorsing candidates, no.

As for Bob Jones, are you talking about Senior, Junior or III? Or did you know there have been three of them? Senior was indeed quite political active; Jr. not so much. III did denounce Reagan, write to W that he had been given a divine mandate and endorse Romney.