ANTM-Cycle 11

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

You know I normally agree with you, but it's not a matter of anyone's "say so." If we're going to talk about mental states, then those are things that are subjective until physical proof comes into play. (I couldn't possibly know a man's orientation so I'd have to take his word for it, but if I caught him jacking off with a Playboy...) Isis, however, may say/think/feel he is a woman but the fact is that he has a penis and a Y chromosome--a perpetual longing to be female complete with matching mental state will not change that. If anything, looking at a man and calling him a her just because he's cross-dressing is denial of fact to me. Perhaps I'm in denial of his wishes, but as he's not an acquaintance whose wishes I must honor, I'll call it like I see it. My 23 cents.

So if you have a Y chromosome but no penis, is that male enough? Are eunuchs men? Are women born without functioning vaginas really women? What if you have XXY? Are you both? If you're born with intersexed genitalia do you get to choose! I'm sure glad you're setting the standards for gender for the world!

Seriously, it's the equivalent of me saying that you don't dress/look/act like my standard of a woman therefore you must be a man. And I thought we got past that a loooooong time ago. You're in denial of psychology and accepted standard medical practice not just her wishes.

Men and women who are diagnosed with GID aren't just cross-dressing, in fact living as the opposite sex is one of the three major parts of triadic therapy, hormones and surgery being the other two. Isis alluded to being on hormones. She may never get or be able to afford the surgery, this does not make her any less of a woman.

[ajuhdg]

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

So if you have a Y chromosome but no penis, is that male enough? Are eunuchs men? Are women born without functioning vaginas really women? What if you have XXY? Are you both? If you're born with intersexed genitalia do you get to choose! I'm sure glad you're setting the standards for gender for the world!

Seriously, it's the equivalent of me saying that you don't dress/look/act like my standard of a woman therefore you must be a man. And I thought we got past that a loooooong time ago. You're in denial of psychology and accepted standard medical practice not just her wishes.

Men and women who are diagnosed with GID aren't just cross-dressing, in fact living as the opposite sex is one of the three major parts of triadic therapy, hormones and surgery being the other two. Isis alluded to being on hormones. She may never get or be able to afford the surgery, this does not make her any less of a woman.

So, according to you, it isn't scientists over the centuries who have crafted definitions of male and female based on the qualities of reproductive systems and genetic make-up...I'm the one who made all that up and decided that's how it is. I'm flattered at how much stock you put in my opinions, but you're giving me a tad more credit than I deserve. And not only have you deemed a stranger's posts on a message board "standards of gender for the world," but now you've given Isis diagnosis of GID (alluding to psychopathology) because...why exactly? Because you looked at the set standards of GID and determined that Isis fit the criteria? Or is it so because you "say so?" Either way, my thoughts are my thoughts and do not effect Isis personally nor do they cause any degree of devastation to humanity. It's really not quite the crisis situation you make it out to be. If you disagree then disagree, but you needn't get this worked up over a forum and a tv show.