Obama's running mate

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Thetagirl218

I totally agree!!!!!! I am a registered Republican.....and I HATE McCain!

I think 8 years of a President so out of touch with the world, has really led to yet another shake up in politics! Its about time!

I think it all depends on what you mean by "shake up." We have a Democrat-controlled Congress - does that mean we should also vote to turn Congressional control to the Republicans, to shake things up? Or, do we only want a shake-up as far as it replaces a Republican president, a selective shake up, so to speak?

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but I just find it interesting that a lot of the people who are talking about change, and about a shake-up, would want 1) to keep control the same in Congress and 2) would be so fired up over two Washington insiders in Obama and Biden. And, yes, Obama is a Washington insider, it's impossible not to be as a member of Congress.

I think the Obama camp made an error in not bringing Hilary on the ticket; there would have been some PR work to do in bringing on a former rival, but Obama's camp is pretty solid in PR (plus the press LOVES Obama), and picking up most of those former Hilary votes could have widened the gap considerably.

Then again, I was listening to one of the political radio shows, and they were talking about the McCain-Bush battle in 2000, how something like 30-40% of McCain backers had said at the convention that they wouldn't back Bush, and how that number decreased to about 6% at election-time. So, I could definitely be wrong.

But, hey, I'm just a Republican who isn't all that thrilled with his own party's candidate, and is voting for him in a "lesser of two evils" context.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I think it all depends on what you mean by "shake up." We have a Democrat-controlled Congress - does that mean we should also vote to turn Congressional control to the Republicans, to shake things up? Or, do we only want a shake-up as far as it replaces a Republican president, a selective shake up, so to speak?

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but I just find it interesting that a lot of the people who are talking about change, and about a shake-up, would want 1) to keep control the same in Congress and 2) would be so fired up over two Washington insiders in Obama and Biden. And, yes, Obama is a Washington insider, it's impossible not to be as a member of Congress.

I think the Obama camp made an error in not bringing Hilary on the ticket; there would have been some PR work to do in bringing on a former rival, but Obama's camp is pretty solid in PR (plus the press LOVES Obama), and picking up most of those former Hilary votes could have widened the gap considerably.

Then again, I was listening to one of the political radio shows, and they were talking about the McCain-Bush battle in 2000, how something like 30-40% of McCain backers had said at the convention that they wouldn't back Bush, and how that number decreased to about 6% at election-time. So, I could definitely be wrong.

But, hey, I'm just a Republican who isn't all that thrilled with his own party's candidate, and is voting for him in a "lesser of two evils" context.

Congress, the Supreme Court, etc., are whole other balls of waxes. For my part, when I spoke of dislodging the entrenched politicos, I'm talking about the countless political appointees who have gotten way too comfy deep in the bowels of the agencies, affecting policy without most of the country having any idea or understanding of how it works. Same with the lobbying groups that have well-trod paths into and out of the executive offices. This is not to say the current lobbyists won't just be replaced by a new set of interest groups, but at least the paths might change slightly so the grass can have a chance to grow back on the paths that have been so worn down the past 8 years.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Congress, the Supreme Court, etc., are whole other balls of waxes. For my part, when I spoke of dislodging the entrenched politicos, I'm talking about the countless political appointees who have gotten way too comfy deep in the bowels of the agencies, affecting policy without most of the country having any idea or understanding of how it works. Same with the lobbying groups that have well-trod paths into and out of the executive offices. This is not to say the current lobbyists won't just be replaced by a new set of interest groups, but at least the paths might change slightly so the grass can have a chance to grow back on the paths that have been so worn down the past 8 years.

Fair enough - I think, though, that the same interest groups are going to be there. Also, those political appointees will probably be on thin ice, no matter who gets elected - McCain and Bush aren't the best of pals, so I think there'd still be a housecleaning.

[Tom Earp]

So, when did Biden become a new born V P Candidate? How long has He been in Congress? Dah-30 years?

He is pure as the driven Deleware snow?

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

So, when did Biden become a new born V P Candidate? How long has He been in Congress? Dah-30 years?

He is pure as the driven Deleware snow?

He has been a Presidential candidate in past primaries. In '88, he might have given Dukakis more of a run for his money, but he had a serious illness.

As far as being in Congress 30 years - I don't see why it's such a big deal. Someone could be a first-term Congressman (or woman) and be dirty, and someone could be in Congress for years while being completely clean.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

So, when did Biden become a new born V P Candidate? How long has He been in Congress? Dah-30 years?

He is pure as the driven Deleware snow?

McCain has been in Congress 26 years! What's your point?

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

McCain has been in Congress 26 years! What's your point?

So how is Biden who has been in the old line political scene any different than those who make a profession of politics?

Obama is talking about change and then digs up someone who is in the main stream of the typical old line up!

Funny how poitics make strange bed fellows.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

So how is Biden who has been in the old line political scene any different than those who make a profession of politics?

Obama is talking about change and then digs up someone who is in the main stream of the typical old line up!

Funny how poitics make strange bed fellows.

Obama almost had to pick someone from the old guard, so to speak, to answer any of the experience questions.

Also, as to the change thing, I'm not sure that adding Biden really goes against that. One of my big issues is that he's been talking about "change" this whole time, when he's been a member of the Congressional majority. I know he's trying to feed off the anti-Bush sentiment, and it's working, but it's also not as if he's some political outsider coming in to shake things up.

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I think
But, hey, I'm just a Republican who isn't all that thrilled with his own party's candidate, and is voting for him in a "lesser of two evils" context.

Finally! I've found a republican who admits he's not "thrilled" with McCain. For some reason, my friends just won't fess up! I remember when McCain was disliked by the republicans. He WAS such a maverick (at times), his conservative counterparts called him "liberal minded." John McCain WAS an independent thinking man I once admired. Hasn't anyone noticed how he has changed over the past eight years (minus the war, of course)? He's fed into all the hype...proving his "conservative beliefs" of pro-life, tax cuts and his disapproval of gay marriage. I guess I can't blame him. How could he have won over his party w/o doing so? If I have learned one thing from my conservative friends it would be that they vote "Republican, no matter what!" I don't know how many times I've heard this.

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Fair enough - I think, though, that the same interest groups are going to be there. Also, those political appointees will probably be on thin ice, no matter who gets elected - McCain and Bush aren't the best of pals, so I think there'd still be a housecleaning.

He could of fooled me! He voted with the dude 95% (or you can use Fox News, who reported 86%) of the time.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by pinksirfidel

Finally! I've found a republican who admits he's not "thrilled" with McCain. For some reason, my friends just won't fess up! I remember when McCain was disliked by the republicans. He WAS such a maverick (at times), his conservative counterparts called him "liberal minded." John McCain WAS an independent thinking man I once admired. Hasn't anyone noticed how he has changed over the past eight years (minus the war, of course)? He's fed into all the hype...proving his "conservative beliefs" of pro-life, tax cuts and his disapproval of gay marriage. I guess I can't blame him. How could he have won over his party w/o doing so? If I have learned one thing from my conservative friends it would be that they vote "Republican, no matter what!" I don't know how many times I've heard this.

The thing is, McCain was NEVER all that liberal. Saying he was liberal is like saying Lieberman was conservative. If you look at McCain's voting record and his stances on issues, he's always been quite conservative on most issues. He got the reputation because of his stances on campaign financing, and a whole lot of spin.

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

The thing is, McCain was NEVER all that liberal. Saying he was liberal is like saying Lieberman was conservative. If you look at McCain's voting record and his stances on issues, he's always been quite conservative on most issues. He got the reputation because of his stances on campaign financing, and a whole lot of spin.

"Spin" by the same party that now supports him?...you gotta love politics! Democrat or republican; Washington politicians must think we're stupid! Considering we believe in so much bull that they put in front us...maybe its true what my high school government teacher used to always say: "the masses are asses!"

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by pinksirfidel

"Spin" by the same party that now supports him?...you gotta love politics! Democrat or republican; Washington politicians must think we're stupid! Considering we believe in so much bull that they put in front us...maybe its true what my high school government teacher used to always say: "the masses are asses!"

No - spin by his own people. If you talked to real Republicans who understood things, they would have told you McCain's stances on things. Just because the media painted him as a "maverick" doesn't mean a whole lot.

And, obviously, the tactic worked on some people - you just stated that you thought he was a "maverick," and "liberal-minded" on some issues.