Why was the thread asking why LadyLonghorn's thread was moved moved?

[EE-BO]

In DeltAlum's defense, this ain't his fight. This is a recruitment forum matter, and while I can appreciate that trying this thread over there would probably lead to fast deletion- the fact is it is hard for a mod to have a thread dealing with a serious concern over another forum in his own forum.

While I do think LL's post was valuable and insightful, and thus agree with some of the comments in the chit chat threads, there was a lot of commentary which was not so much about the actual words used- but the context. I have been a mod for just over a year now, and the thread here asking why LL's post got removed was reported more than any other thread I have ever seen. And it was not just one post getting reported- but several, and the people reporting weren't just mods- it included a lot of people who are regular and valuable posters here. I think most of them share the view that LL's post should not have been removed from Recruitment. It was the turn of the discussion in the chit chat thread that bothered them.

So DeltAlum did not really have much choice. And given that there has to be some kind of outlet for people to express their views on this situation, I think it was cool of him to reopen this thread and give a voice to an issue that he should not have to be dealing with in the first place.

As for LL's post- while I did like, it needed a little tweaking. It was a great smackdown for the HMs, but there will also be moms coming here to post (and tons more to just read) who are genuinely sad and upset, and just want some advice on how to counsel their daughters. Not all the moms are Helicopter Moms, and given how incredibly important sorority recruitment is- EASILY the MOST emotionally driven aspect of Greek Life- it needed a little bit of finesse in parts.

And so on that basis, it is hard to expect a Super-Mod to overrule the Recruitment Mod and just reinstate the thread- even if the little battle started by an HM were to be removed.

Super-Mods have a lot of power, but those few chosen for that role also have a tremendous respect for being careful about using it. Just look at all the fury over one thread being moved. Imagine the fury that would erupt if a Super-Mod were to override a Mod, demod or ban a Moderator. It would take a lot more than this to justify that- even given the historical context of the issue at hand with HM-related threads.

Most all of us are on the same page. And we are not going to attack other mods openly in these forums. That serves no valid purpose in the long run. This is why many of you are not seeing the outrage from us in print that you expect. We respect the role and that we are not the ones to decide who is, or is not, a mod. And I personally have a LOT of respect for just how hard it must be to moderate Recruitment fora to begin with.

I agree there is an issue here, but I think to be fair you all have to concede that there were some minor issues with the original post and how it would be received by non-HMs and also some issues with the backlash. That complicates Mods and Super-Mods taking drastic steps.

For now, I am just happy DeltAlum is letting this issue crash his forum for discussion. Rest assured we are all thinking about it too- and from both sides of the fence- and while we may not have the power to act as quick as everyone wants, and certainly won't be able to make everyone happy- we do care.

Yes this site is Entertainment. I like a good web-fight as much as anyone. But I do also care about the value of this place to Greeks. And I think I speak for all mods in saying that.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

In DeltAlum's defense, this ain't his fight. This is a recruitment forum matter, and while I can appreciate that trying this thread over there would probably lead to fast deletion- the fact is it is hard for a mod to have a thread dealing with a serious concern over another forum in his own forum.

While I do think LL's post was valuable and insightful, and thus agree with some of the comments in the chit chat threads, there was a lot of commentary which was not so much about the actual words used- but the context. I have been a mod for just over a year now, and the thread here asking why LL's post got removed was reported more than any other thread I have ever seen. And it was not just one post getting reported- but several, and the people reporting weren't just mods- it included a lot of people who are regular and valuable posters here. I think most of them share the view that LL's post should not have been removed from Recruitment. It was the turn of the discussion in the chit chat thread that bothered them.

So DeltAlum did not really have much choice. And given that there has to be some kind of outlet for people to express their views on this situation, I think it was cool of him to reopen this thread and give a voice to an issue that he should not have to be dealing with in the first place.

As for LL's post- while I did like, it needed a little tweaking. It was a great smackdown for the HMs, but there will also be moms coming here to post (and tons more to just read) who are genuinely sad and upset, and just want some advice on how to counsel their daughters. Not all the moms are Helicopter Moms, and given how incredibly important sorority recruitment is- EASILY the MOST emotionally driven aspect of Greek Life- it needed a little bit of finesse in parts.

And so on that basis, it is hard to expect a Super-Mod to overrule the Recruitment Mod and just reinstate the thread- even if the little battle started by an HM were to be removed.

Super-Mods have a lot of power, but those few chosen for that role also have a tremendous respect for being careful about using it. Just look at all the fury over one thread being moved. Imagine the fury that would erupt if a Super-Mod were to override a Mod, demod or ban a Moderator. It would take a lot more than this to justify that- even given the historical context of the issue at hand with HM-related threads.

Most all of us are on the same page. And we are not going to attack other mods openly in these forums. That serves no valid purpose in the long run. This is why many of you are not seeing the outrage from us in print that you expect. We respect the role and that we are not the ones to decide who is, or is not, a mod. And I personally have a LOT of respect for just how hard it must be to moderate Recruitment fora to begin with.

I agree there is an issue here, but I think to be fair you all have to concede that there were some minor issues with the original post and how it would be received by non-HMs and also some issues with the backlash. That complicates Mods and Super-Mods taking drastic steps.

For now, I am just happy DeltAlum is letting this issue crash his forum for discussion. Rest assured we are all thinking about it too- and from both sides of the fence- and while we may not have the power to act as quick as everyone wants, and certainly won't be able to make everyone happy- we do care.

Yes this site is Entertainment. I like a good web-fight as much as anyone. But I do also care about the value of this place to Greeks. And I think I speak for all mods in saying that.

With all due respect, I think you may be making GC out to be way more important than it really is. This isn't the NPC or IFC official site. Posts made here are not official statements by any Greek organization. Furthermore, you imply that the sensitivities of visitors to this site warrant more consideration that those of the regular posters of the site. So what if a few moms are insulted? If I go on the political threads I get insulted because I am conservative and 99.99% of GC posters are liberals. Solution: I don't go there. I don't need a moderator deciding what is offensive and what isn't. If someone was upset by the advice in LL's thread, they could have started a new thread with different advice, or added their differing opinion to that thread.

In my opinion, this site does not, or should I say should not, exist to promote a positive image of Greek life. It is merely an outlet for Greeks to interact, and as such it is valuable as a realistic portrayal of Greek life. GC's value to a visitor is that it provides such insight, for better or for worse. Visitors to the site can take it for what it is. When the site is micro-moderated, visitors are left with a sanitized forum and therefore it loses its value as a truthful portayal. It becomes a product of the views of the moderators, rather than the regular posters. Some Greeks are hateful people, so therefore some posts will be. Deleting everything hateful promotes an image that just isn't realistic.

For the most part, GC posters tend to do a pretty good job of moderating themselves. When newbies ask for tiers and such, they are immediately informed of the culture of the site by regular posters. No moderating interference is needed.

Other than spam and obscenity/vulgarity, I don't see why anything needs to be deleted.

Lady Longhorn's post, and even the ensuing drama, is just part of a whole that is GC. I don't think any of it should have been altered other than obscenity. All of it represented the opinions of the posters, and that is exactly what GC should be, in my opinion.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I don't need a moderator deciding what is offensive and what isn't.

In my opinion, this site does not, or should I say should not, exist to promote a positive image of Greek life. It is merely an outlet for Greeks to interact, and as such it is valuable as a realistic portrayal of Greek life.

When the site is micro-moderated, visitors are left with a sanitized forum and therefore it loses its value as a truthful portayal. It becomes a product of the views of the moderators, rather than the regular posters.

Lady Longhorn's post, and even the ensuing drama, is just part of a whole that is GC. I don't think any of it should have been altered other than obscenity. All of it represented the opinions of the posters, and that is exactly what GC should be, in my opinion.

I agree 100% with your whole post, but these are my favorite passages. As everyone can see from my signature, I am not a fan of any kind of censorship. I believe that everyone should be able to express his or her own opinion on a message board, even if that opinion is that another poster is a raging asshat.

And I don't care about the cussing. Aren't we all adults? Aren't we all exposed to it every day? And if some people think they will spontaneously combust because they read four little letters on a computer screen, perhaps they need to pursue other forms of entertainment that don't involve real people in the real world. This isn't ChurchChat.

I also agree with the point that GC is "self-moderated." If someone gives idiotic advice (as was recently given), the more knowledgeable posters step in to correct the mistaken poster and guide the asker correctly. But if the idiotic posts are always removed, how will we be able to discern who is giving valuable advice and who is a moron? Leave them up for the record! Leave the corrections up for the record! Let everyone who is considering posting read what has been done in error, and they will think twice before posting the same stupid thing.

LL's thread should have stood as a beacon to all the HM's. First they should be able to read her excellent advice. Then they should read what will happen to them if they try to barge in on the membership selection practices of NPC sororities. I can hear the fwapping now (great sig TC). They are going to come here and post the exact same things that start this shit up. And they won't know any better since all the previous HM drama has been removed.