Mccain, just saying what he thinks we want to hear?

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Well, I read your post and frankly, I think it' a load of kool-aid-drinking ivory tower bullshit.

Seriously, you don't think Obama has ever said something just because he thought people wanted to hear it?

CHANGE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO HOPE FOR AS CHANGE IN YOUR CHANGEHOPE CHANGE.

The guy is a rhetorical wizard - that's basically the definition of "saying what you think people want to hear. Come on, dude.

The idea that Obama is infallible, or that he doesn't practice the same type of campaigning as other politicians, is hilarious.

Also - no one who knew anything about McCain ever thought he was "liberal" for a Republican. Even during his "crusader" days, he still held a ton of conservative positions.

If you want Obama as President, support him, by all means. However, please don't act like he's some exception to the rule. He's playing the game too.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

The idea that Obama is infallible, or that he doesn't practice the same type of campaigning as other politicians, is hilarious.

Also - no one who knew anything about McCain ever thought he was "liberal" for a Republican. Even during his "crusader" days, he still held a ton of conservative positions.

If you want Obama as President, support him, by all means. However, please don't act like he's some exception to the rule. He's playing the game too.

I keep telling people that Obama walks on water.

It's interesting how people respond to me when I critique Obama in everyday interactions. The whites are shocked that a black person would think of Obama as a typical politician and the blacks are ready to revoke my "black card" and throw me off of a building. It can get heated but I always find it amusing.

This doesn't mean that I don't think Obama is a promising candidate, as promising as politicians can be, or that I might not vote for him. It means that if I vote for him it isn't based on my loyalty to Obama.

ETA: Obama seems like a cool person but that likeability doesn't a President make. Hell, Dubya seems like a cool person sometimes.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I keep telling people that Obama walks on water.

It's interesting how people respond to me when I critique Obama in everyday interactions. The whites are shocked that a black person would think of Obama as a typical politician and the blacks are ready to revoke my "black card" and throw me off of a building. It can get heated but I always find it amusing.

This doesn't mean that I don't think Obama is a promising candidate, as promising as politicians can be, or that I might not vote for him. It means that if I vote for him it isn't based on my loyalty to Obama.

Obama has become quite the Teflon politician in this campaign. If you talk to many Obama supporters, they'll find it inconceivable that anyone could disagree with Obama on any issue. He's an extremely intelligent guy with a fantastic educational background, parts of his platform have issues where reasonable people may disagree.

I understand being passionate about a candidate, and really buying into his/her message. What I don't understand, though, is the creation of a halo effect around Obama, and the indignation some people have towards anyone who would dare question his policies.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Obama has become quite the Teflon politician in this campaign. If you talk to many Obama supporters, they'll find it inconceivable that anyone could disagree with Obama on any issue. He's an extremely intelligent guy with a fantastic educational background, parts of his platform have issues where reasonable people may disagree.

I understand being passionate about a candidate, and really buying into his/her message. What I don't understand, though, is the creation of a halo effect around Obama, and the indignation some people have towards anyone who would dare question his policies.

It's just like the marketing of a "no spin zone--the spin stops here." I like Fox News but I know that there's spin. It's just a matter of where the spin is, which is sometimes not in the obvious places.

Oh and I know people who will talk about how Obama has probably had to play the politics game but these people say he's doing what needs to be done for the necessary change. That spin is amazing. It's "whatever means necessary" if one candidate plays politics and may have to be less forthcoming with info. Aren't lies and withholding info part of what pissed Americans off about this war? Slipper slope alert.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

What I don't understand, though, is the creation of a halo effect around Obama, and the indignation some people have towards anyone who would dare question his policies.

I suspect that if we look back over the past several years we would see the same phenomenon for President Bush.

People can be pretty myopic when it comes to "their" candidate.

[Tinia2]

mccain's champaign ran,as a paid commercial about 12 times, an ad criticizing obama for not visiting troops while on his recent overseas trip. it was run free as a news story over a hundred times. the minor problem is that it is not accurate; it is an attack ad. and it has not always been corrected. and people are taking it a hard face value. and it seems to be running and showing despite champaign's pledge not to run attack ads. the criticisms and accusations have even been part of a chain email. which made an appearance here in greek chat.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072902286.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/us...er&oref=slogin

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

I suspect that if we look back over the past several years we would see the same phenomenon for President Bush.

People can be pretty myopic when it comes to "their" candidate.

I see where you're going with your little dig there, but I have to disagree...many Republicans (including myself) haven't been happy with Bush's Presidency, and are happy that we'll have an alternative (although many of us wish it had been someone other than McCain). Many of us voted for Bush in the last election because of our aversion to Kerry.

Also, you'll notice that we haven't been saying that it's an issue with ALL Democrats, just Obama supporters (who could be Democrat, Republican, or whatever). I know many Democrats who aren't happy with Obama, or his platform.

So, nice try in attempting to make this as a partisan thing but it's not.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Well, I don't think so...many Republicans (including myself) haven't been happy with Bush's Presidency, and are happy that we'll have an alternative. Most of us voted for Bush in the last election because of our aversion to Kerry.

So, nice try in attempting to marginalize this as a partisan thing, but it's not.

It actually can be a partisan thing and just a human thing. There are still Bush loyalists. And before Bush proved to be a sucky President, there are people who swore that God sent Bush to bring America back to Christianity (and some other ideals that I won't get into).

The Obama Messiah phenomena is about timing, because people are desperately looking for something better, and about what people think change looks like. What better way to symbolize change than to have a charismatic, well-spoken, accomplished, and well-mannered (read: "not like the others" and "not how we're used to seeing 'them'" and "not a loud Reverend like Jesse Jackson") black man who people around the world are going googoo over. I don't think it holds much substance below the surface, but on the surface it makes America and the world look like a great deal of change is on its way.

None of what I typed makes any of this any less humorous, of course.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It actually can be a partisan thing and just a human thing. There are still Bush loyalists. And before Bush proved to be a sucky President, there are people who swore that God sent Bush to bring America back to Christianity (and some other ideals that I won't get into).

The Obama Messiah phenomena is about timing, because people are desperately looking for something better, and about what people think change looks like. What better way to symbolize change than to have a charismatic, well-spoken, accomplished, and well-mannered (read: "not like the others" and "not how we're used to seeing 'them'" and "not a loud Reverend like Jesse Jackson") black man who people around the world are going googoo over. I don't think it holds much substance below the surface, but on the surface it makes America and the world look like a great deal of change is on its way.

None of what I typed makes any of this any less humorous, of course.

Ok, fair enough - I don't entirely see this as a partisan thing though, because there's a portion of the Democrats (mostly former Hillary supporters) who aren't fully embracing the Obama candidacy.

There were a few Bush loyalists, absolutely - but I think (outside of the time right around 9/11, and that small group of loyalists lasting to today), that he had far more detractors, and that his following paled in comparison to Obama's current following. If nothing else, Bush's spending while in office alienated a large portion of the Republican party early on.

I see what you're saying, and I agree with almost all of it - I just don't think (again, outside of the time around 9/11) that the support for Bush ever reached that "Messiah" level. Maybe that's because I never fully embraced his Presidency myself, who knows.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I see where you're going with your little dig there, but I have to disagree...

Certainlly not a dig at you personally, but as I think back over the "debates" on these pages over the past several years, whichever candidate some people supported was held nearly godlike and the other in total disrespect.

I've seen the past few elections as a race between the lesser of two evils -- but in the case of Bush, II, I just never trusted him. Easy as that.

But no group or candidate is free of your teflon analogy within their own circle of supporters.

[Tinia2]

perhaps going back to the op, while mccain seems to say at every possible moment that he is against any and all new taxes, his actions and deeds seem to indicate other wise http://www.slate.com/id/2196336/