I wonder what would happen if... - Page 3

TexasWSP · #31 05-31-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Uhmm telling me I'm a pain in the ass is hardly a joke to me. If you meant it to be a joke, how about using the emoticons to the right of you...mkay?

I believe I stated that you "sounded" like a pain in the ass......not that you were one. You said yourself the woman was irritated. Calm yourself down.

Forgive me for not embracing emoticons. They are a tool of the Earp.

DSTCHAOS · #32 05-31-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

I don't know anything about what you said.....but it sounds like you were a major pain in the ass on your zoo tour.

It seems like it. hehe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

Yes, Mrs. I Have a Bitchy Attitude, it is obvious. I have never studied genetics or anything associated with it. Thanks for reaffirming my thoughts.

I was joking. Obviously you can't take one. You were asking a zoo tour guide about gene sequencing in chimpanzees........lighten up. It's funny.

I think it's funny, too. But she seriously was probably being a pain in the ass.

BigRedBeta · #33 05-31-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

If the DNA sequence in humans is so close to that of chimpanzees, why do the two species look so different?"

You're very correct in the issue of differences of gene promotion.

Sequence is only one part of the equation. The ways in which an individual gene is turned on - in terms of frequency, timing, and so forth - accounts for a great deal of the variety. Further, because genes have effects on other genes down the line, turning them on and off in particular sequences (accomplished through a variety of promoter and inhibitor sequences in front and behind a particular gene), matters as well.

Think of it this way. Say you have a number of red, blue and green legos. For one building, you start out with 50 red pieces, 20 blue pieces, and 30 green pieces. No matter what you build, from a color stand point, it's going to look MUCH different than the thing you build with 10 red pieces, 75 blue pieces and 15 green pieces. DNA in the fact that it essentially codes for those building blocks (proteins) is very similar.

Quote:

Well, if chimps and humans are so close in DNA and chromosome number, what if we were to use the science of In vitro fertilization. Would something come from it?

Would likely depend on what's encoded on that extra set of chromosomes, and how well a fertilization would respond to that missing set of information. As far as humans go, monosomies are poorly, poorly tolerated and result uniformly in spontaneous abortion of the pregnancy. There are only three human Trisomies (having three of a particular set of chromosome) that result in a fetus compatible with extra-uterine life - 13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patau_syndrome ; 18 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward%27s_Syndrome ; and 21 - which is Down's syndrome. Edwards and Patau syndrome infants rarely live past a year. And yet, obviously Down's syndrome has a pretty variable prognosis and many individuals live long, fulfilling lives. So it's difficult to predict exactly what you're cross breeding experiment would beget.

cheerfulgreek · #34 06-01-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

I believe I stated that you "sounded" like a pain in the ass......not that you were one. You said yourself the woman was irritated. Calm yourself down.

Forgive me for not embracing emoticons. They are a tool of the Earp.

Oh, but then you called me "Mrs. Bitchy Attitude," was that a joke too? I'm very calm, you're the one who's getting upset. Maybe you shouldn't post on threads you know very little to nothing about.

"Mrs. Moron."

BTW: When I go to a zoo, I'll ask as many questions as I want, rather the tour guide gets upset or not.

TexasWSP · #35 06-01-2008, 01:12 AM

Hahahahahahahaha, oh wow....now you're doing the "I'm very calm.......you're the upset one" technique . Yes, you're right. Clearly by my posts I am just seething mad. Yes, Devil Woman, it was a joke.

Did you just scold me about posting in threads? Please take a second and remove yourself from the golden pedestal you have perched yourself on . Maybe you're right though......I'm sure there's just a plethora of people on this greek life interweb message board that could write books on primate genetics.

......yes, you're exactly right.....and can read to boot. I most certainly did call you "Ms. I have a bitchy attitude".

Between your responses here and your bashing and making fun of unfortunate Subway Sandwich Artists, I felt the moniker was warranted.

You need to lighten up.

TexasWSP · #36 06-01-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It seems like it. hehe.

I think it's funny, too. But she seriously was probably being a pain in the ass.

I know right?

Leslie Anne · #37 06-01-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

Would likely depend on what's encoded on that extra set of chromosomes, and how well a fertilization would respond to that missing set of information. As far as humans go, monosomies are poorly, poorly tolerated and result uniformly in spontaneous abortion of the pregnancy. There are only three human Trisomies (having three of a particular set of chromosome) that result in a fetus compatible with extra-uterine life - 13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patau_syndrome ; 18 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward%27s_Syndrome ; and 21 - which is Down's syndrome. Edwards and Patau syndrome infants rarely live past a year. And yet, obviously Down's syndrome has a pretty variable prognosis and many individuals live long, fulfilling lives. So it's difficult to predict exactly what you're cross breeding experiment would beget.

I'm finding this fascinating. You'll have to bear with me as I'm woefully ignorant in the sciences. (I did look up "trisomies" and "monosomies" though.) What I'm now wondering is why it would be so difficult to predict a cross breeding. If you match up like chromosomes between two different species wouldn't you at least know what wouldn't match up and result in monosomies?

(Hmm, as I'm writing this it's occuring to me why it would be difficult to predict.) I'm guessing that certain monosomies and trisomies would result in things we've never seen before?

What about with just in vitro fertilization of a human embryo into another primate?

Sorry for the silly questions. I'm just very curious.

cheerfulgreek · #38 06-01-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Are you kidding? She's a tour guide. She's not a DNA scientist or something.

At first I was being sarcastic with her about the in vitro fertilization, because she kept going on and on about humans and apes being so closely related, so I brought up the dog and wolf example, along with other questions I had. I was just trying to get her to think about what she was saying. So yes, at first I was kidding a little until I started thinking about what I was kidding about.

I had questions, because I felt that some of the information she provided was inaccurate. She was making it seem like though chimps are a different species from us, that we're considered to be cousins.

She said that our DNA are very close as if we came from them.

I felt that she wasn't understanding what biological species concept really is. I had questions, because biological species concept bases it's classification on reproductive compatibility. Organisms that can successfully reproduce together are considered to be of the same species, and those that can't reproduce together are a different species. There's only one living human species. Us. Of course the bio species concept definition leaves a lot to be desired because many closely related organisms can interbreed yet are clearly different enough to be separate species, which is why I sarcastically brought up the in vitro fertilization to her.

Another method of classification, one that I actually think works a little better, is knowing that species are groups of organisms that maintain unique identities, genetically, physically, and geographically over time and space. Like I said earlier, in dogs and wolves. They're both in genus "Canis". Before I get ahead of myself, just so you know, sharing a genus name tells you that organisms are quite similar and very closely related. We don't share the same genus name as chimps. Just because we share similar DNA doesn't mean we came from them. I felt she was way off. We're homo sapiens, chimps are pan troglodytes (not sure if I spelled that right) but it's something like that. Anyway, as I was saying with the wolves and dogs, they're species names are different. Dogs are always Canis familiaris, but there are many different species of wolves, all beginning with Canis but ending with a variety of species names to accurately describe how different they are from each other. Genetically dogs and wolves are very distinct, but they aren't so different that they can't reproduce. That's why I jokingly asked the in vitro fertilization question to her. Later, I started to wonder what if? I was really nice about it though. I mean, it's not like I was being mean to her or anything.

PhiGam · #39 06-01-2008, 01:53 AM

Usually when something is produced with less chromosomes than its parents it has significant defects- I would think that Mules are a rare exception to this. The hybrid would have to have alterations on all 23 chromosome pairs- an alteration on one usually results in a severe disorder. I would guess that the offspring would be unable to develop or survive.

cheerfulgreek · #40 06-01-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

Would likely depend on what's encoded on that extra set of chromosomes, and how well a fertilization would respond to that missing set of information.

So do you think the body would just reject it? That's what I was thinking.

Leslie Anne · #41 06-01-2008, 01:59 AM

PhiGam,

Could you explain the term "alterations" in this context? I'm trying to follow what you're saying, and I think I've got most of it, but I'm still curious.

Thanks

cheerfulgreek · #42 06-01-2008, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

Yes, Devil Woman, it was a joke.

So now I'm a devil woman....nice.

Leslie Anne · #43 06-01-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

So now I'm a devil woman....nice.

Don't worry about it, cheerful. Consider the source.

cheerfulgreek · #44 06-01-2008, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Don't worry about it, cheerful. Consider the source.

Thanks for that.

TexasWSP · #45 06-01-2008, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

So now I'm a devil woman....nice.

Yes, you are a devil woman.

It's from Billy Madison....a movie. "Don't tell me my business devil woman......."???

Ring any bells?? Guess not. You probably don't like comedies.....they require a sense of humor. You probably hate dogs and children too....and fast food employees, haha.

Consider the source? Pffft.