California's top court overturns gay marriage ban

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Let me pose a somewhat hypothetical question:

Then what about cultures that are non-Christian (also non-Western) but are still very anti-gay? What basis are they using to justify their reasoning for being anti-gay? In these cultures the issue of gay marriage would never come up because the issue of revealing that you are gay could lead to death.

Are these cultures using morality to justify their reason, their religion, or their laws?

These cultures have absolutely no bearing on American law, nor a significant effect on the American response to laws attempting to legalize marriage for homosexuals.

It's totally irrelevant, and it's 100% a strawman - my argument does not apply anywhere except within the context of the American system of law.

If the United States were ruled by a junta or were a theocracy, obviously one moral authority could rule without any exception. Thankfully, it's not, so your examples are laughably irrelevant.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

These cultures have absolutely no bearing on American law, nor a significant effect on the American response to laws attempting to legalize marriage for homosexuals.

It's totally irrelevant, and it's 100% a strawman - my argument does not apply anywhere except within the context of the American system of law.

If the United States were ruled by a junta or were a theocracy, obviously one moral authority could rule without any exception. Thankfully, it's not, so your examples are laughably irrelevant.

EXACTLY!!! If the US was a nation that was run as you state, then there would be no consideration of a moral code or a religious one in terms of governing the people.

I never did say, nor, did I mean to imply that what happens outside the US should have any bearing on American law.

I posed the situation because so far in this thread people seem to want to make the issue based on one aspect or another, failing to recognize that there is some overlap among laws, morality and religion in this country when it comes to governing our lives. In some other cultures there is no overlap.

The current accepted concept of marriage in this country is legislated by laws, recognizes a legal union between a man and a woman, and this arrangement is also as promoted by Christianity, along with other religions.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

The current accepted concept of marriage in this country is legislated by laws, recognizes a legal union between a man and a woman, and this arrangement is also as promoted by Christianity, along with other religions.

Although there are Christian denominations who are not against gay marriage and there have been several laws that were once "current accepted concepts" but were challenged and changed because they were wrong. This is called progress and it resulted in voting rights for women and African Americans, the abolishment of slavery, the ability of women to own property, etc. In my view, it's time to revisit our "current accepted concept of marriage" and challenge it.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Although there are Christian denominations who are not against gay marriage and there have been several laws that were once "current accepted concepts" but were challenged and changed because they were wrong. This is called progress and it resulted in voting rights for women and African Americans, the abolishment of slavery, the ability of women to own property, etc. In my view, it's time to revisit our "current accepted concept of marriage" and challenge it.

No way, instead of recognizing equal rights for black Americans, we should have just altered the definition of "white."

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Although there are Christian denominations who are not against gay marriage and there have been several laws that were once "current accepted concepts" but were challenged and changed because they were wrong. This is called progress and it resulted in voting rights for women and African Americans, the abolishment of slavery, the ability of women to own property, etc. In my view, it's time to revisit our "current accepted concept of marriage" and challenge it.

I see your point. But for me the issue of gay marriage has no equal magnitude in terms of changing society as did Women's Rights and Civil Rights. The extent to which women and minorities suffered is far greater than what gays experience. Gays have not been denied the right to vote, the right to dictate what happens to thier bodies, the right to choose where they live, work, play, socialize. Nor the right to receive an fair and equal education to that of White males.

My point with the hypothetical post was to illustrate that some of our current laws are based in a combination from legal, moral and religious issues.

[doogur]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Gays have not been denied...the right to dictate what happens to thier bodies, the right to choose where they live, work, play, socialize.

You're kidding, right?

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by doogur

You're kidding, right?

Nope. Go read an American History book from Civil War to Present. That should clear up this point for you.

[doogur]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Nope. Go read an American History book from Civil War to Present. That should clear up this point for you.

No, I can just go talk to people I know who have been fired and beaten up for being gay. Maybe should talk to them too.