Blindfolds as Hazing?

[tld221]

oh come ON! those scenarios ^^^ (which sound so ridiculous but lets say ok they did happen) are so ridiculous.

ok i said the same thing twice. triple-blindfolding? and what are the odds that you get in a car accident on the way to some ritual, a car full of blindfolded pledges in tow?

if those are the reason that led courts to say "blindfolding = hazing" sheesh. this is similar to "lets use fake candles during ritual because all of those ppl getting their hair caught on fire." umm, grab a scrunchie and move on.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by tld221

this is similar to "lets use fake candles during ritual because all of those ppl getting their hair caught on fire." umm, grab a scrunchie and move on.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[CULater]

anything and everything involved in pledging, new member education can be argued as hazing since it is such a vague term.

the sad thing is, that sometimes, when it clearly IS hazing but didn't cause death (ex. hospitalization involved after a paddling or other physical harm), the defendants get off on the technicality that hazing is so vague.

[RaggedyAnn]

Originally Posted by tld221

oh come ON! those scenarios ^^^ (which sound so ridiculous but lets say ok they did happen) are so ridiculous.

ok i said the same thing twice. triple-blindfolding? and what are the odds that you get in a car accident on the way to some ritual, a car full of blindfolded pledges in tow?

if those are the reason that led courts to say "blindfolding = hazing" sheesh. this is similar to "lets use fake candles during ritual because all of those ppl getting their hair caught on fire." umm, grab a scrunchie and move on.

Kelly Nester, Plymouth State University, 2003

Originally Posted by RaggedyAnn

Kelly Nester, Plymouth State University, 2003

That was so sad.

For anyone else who might have missed the thread: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=71234

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by RaggedyAnn

Kelly Nester, Plymouth State University, 2003

Not to diminish her death in any way, however, what did the blindfold have to do with her death?\

ETA: CLEARLY hazing was involved, but the blindfold seems to be rather minor given that the other women were able to escape from the car.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Not to diminish her death in any way, however, what did the blindfold have to do with her death?

If she wasn't blindfolded, maybe she could have avoided flying out the rear window to her death.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by naraht

The use of Blindfolds in this case is specifically as part of the Nationally designated rituals and the caveat about school rules and state laws is written in the ritual.

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

As for hazing, to me it depends on how and when the blindfolds are used. I might have a problem with it other than in rituals, and then assuming they are strictly controlled with no chance of harm.

Yep.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by OTW

If she wasn't blindfolded, maybe she could have avoided flying out the rear window to her death.

I didn't recall this story, so I've been reading up on it. It looks like the lack of seatbelts and the fact that ten women were piled into one car contributed more than the blindfolds. While I don't believe the blindfolds had anything to do with her death, I also don't think there's ever any reason to blindfold people outside of specific ritual as mandated by an organization.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I didn't recall this story, so I've been reading up on it. It looks like the lack of seatbelts and the fact that ten women were piled into one car contributed more than the blindfolds. While I don't believe the blindfolds had anything to do with her death, I also don't think there's ever any reason to blindfold people outside of specific ritual as mandated by an organization.

Are you kidding me?

While I don't know if not being blindfolded would have saved her life, at least she would have been alert and aware of her surroundings, enabling her to do whatever was necessary to not fly out of that window.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Not to diminish her death in any way, however, what did the blindfold have to do with her death?\

ETA: CLEARLY hazing was involved, but the blindfold seems to be rather minor given that the other women were able to escape from the car.

Originally Posted by Kevin

But your argument is that they were hurt while blindfolded and possibly could have been hurt more because of the blindfolding.

Do you not see that the fact that someone could be hurt doing something doesn't make that thing hazing? It could be dangerous, but not hazing.

But really... having a national rule because of something that happened one or two times ever is just silly.

The above was kind of what i was getting at. RaggedyAnn, I didnt mean to mock the situation (and may the girl RIP) but considering the additional pieces to the story, i think the blindfolding is further down on the list of hazards.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I didn't recall this story, so I've been reading up on it. It looks like the lack of seatbelts and the fact that ten women were piled into one car contributed more than the blindfolds. While I don't believe the blindfolds had anything to do with her death, I also don't think there's ever any reason to blindfold people outside of specific ritual as mandated by an organization.

Originally Posted by OTW

Are you kidding me?

While I don't know if not being blindfolded would have saved her life, at least she would have been alert and aware of her surroundings, enabling her to do whatever was necessary to not fly out of that window.

Hmm, i'm going with PJ on this one. being blindfolded may or may not have saved her life, but wearing a seatbelt and not being crammed in a car wouldve been more essential. but you dont see Nationals telling chapters to take the bus to rituals versus driving, now do you?

I just think the reaction is a little off. That accident couldve happened blindfolds or not.

[AGDee]

I was actually not saying that all blind folding is hazing, but that it is a risk that can be managed. Not all risk management is hazing. And, while that scenario seems unlikely, it happened.

This isn't that dissimilar to some of the child safety laws that are enacted. Can you believe that most people my age never had car seats? Yet, many states now require them and are now requiring booster seats until age 8. Yes, our hooded sweatshirts and coats used to have draw strings on them until some kid got hers stuck on a monkey bar and choked to death. Our mattresses weren't flame retardant and neither were our pajamas, but they are now (in fact I heard this morning that the flame retardant is a carcinogen, so you have a choice of your bed burning or getting cancer.. we can't win). It's kind of amazing that we're even alive. Our mothers smoked and drank while they were pregnant too.. and ate lunch meat.

Bottom line, it's a different time and people sue over everything. Good risk management is doing all you can to avoid accidents and harm to our members. The rules are dictated by the insurance companies who, we hope, prevent our organizations from being bankrupt by some crazy lawsuit, but they only cover us if we are following the rules.