Washington and Lee Recruitment...what is it like?

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Breathesgelatin, as one of the people who has volunteered to help out with the ADPi colonization, do you think that not having the first term inside scoop on the freshmen will help or hurt? Please be brutally honest!

Ahh.... possibly. I mean, all the other sororities will have a pretty good idea in January of who they'd like in their pledge class. Maybe that's more than I should say, but it's the truth.

On the other hand, ADPi will be recruiting slightly different people. My guess is that a lot of upperclass women who weren't satisfied with their sorority options or who just didn't join before for whatever reason might now be interested in ADPi. (Certainly when I was a senior in 2005 a bunch of upperclass women went to the Panhel expansion presentations.) Also, W&L has gone through this same thing before with both Pi Phi and KD and both remain on campus as strong chapters.

I mean... I think that honestly ADPi is going to get a weird mix of people at first. I know from secondhand knowledge that the initial pledge classes of Pi Phi and KD were both pretty diverse... it took a while for them to establish their chapter identities. The KD seniors when I was a freshmen (01-02 schoolyear) were in the chapter when most of the KD founding class (recruitment 1997, thus graduating class 2000) were there. The KD seniors when I was a freshman were frankly not like the girls who pledged KD when I pledged Pi Phi... it took a while for KD to sort of establish its identity. What I know of Pi Phi's colonization (from founding alums who advised our chapter) presents a similar story: some upperclassmen/transfers, some girls who were hardcore Pi Phi legacies, some girls who were interested in starting something new and some who were just like... ok. The thing is that the way they did matching when KD and Pi Phi colonized was that the colonizing group had a quota of 70 and everybody else divided what was left... so frankly, ADPi is going to get MOST of the girls. Also due to the way the numbers will work, they're probably going to get some girls that didn't necessarily want ADPi as their first choice (this would again match up with my anecdotal knowledge of past W&L colonizations). The competition for the 20 or so spots the other houses each have is probably going to be fierce - a lot of girls are probably going to want to join groups that are a known factor and where they have upperclassmen friends. So a lot of girls that listed other places second might end up with ADPi in bid matching.

This is all my conjecture based on what I know of past recruitments (which is pretty extensive, but obviously not infallible and obviously W&L could have changed the way they're doing colonization from the past). So... take it with a grain of salt. I think ADPi is going to have a great colonization! I just think they're going to get a really diverse group of girls and it's going to take a while for them to really find their identity on campus.

[honeychile]

Having seen a recolonization before, I figured as much. Lots of women (who for one reason or another) didn't get a bid, legacies, and upperclassmen, along with the few who were intrigued by the new kid on the block. It took the chapter with which I'm familiar about 3 years to find their stride, and another 3-4 years to really excel - but they did it.

One of the biggest differences I see in the two is that, with the recolonization, there was still the interview process. Which isn't infallible - one of the women who didn't pass the interview ended up getting a bid two years later, and was on Homecoming Court!

It's becoming "curiouser and curiouser"!!

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Having seen a recolonization before, I figured as much. Lots of women (who for one reason or another) didn't get a bid, legacies, and upperclassmen, along with the few who were intrigued by the new kid on the block. It took the chapter with which I'm familiar about 3 years to find their stride, and another 3-4 years to really excel - but they did it.

One of the biggest differences I see in the two is that, with the recolonization, there was still the interview process. Which isn't infallible - one of the women who didn't pass the interview ended up getting a bid two years later, and was on Homecoming Court!

It's becoming "curiouser and curiouser"!!

Yeah, I guess they just skip the interview part at W&L colonizing recruitments if they're doing full-on formal recruitment with the other groups? Or maybe one of the nights will sort of BE an interview night? I have no clue. Sorry I'm not more help.

Do you know which chapter(s) is/are coming in to help? Our chapter always felt warm and fuzzy about the William & Mary Pi Phi chapter b/c they recruited our colonizing class and our house mother was an alum of that chapter.

[honeychile]

I don't know at this time. There's just been the random "are there any alumnae interested in helping out?" statement. We haven't a chapter at W&M, so they won't be there. Maybe UVA?

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I don't know at this time. There's just been the random "are there any alumnae interested in helping out?" statement. We haven't a chapter at W&M, so they won't be there. Maybe UVA?

I think each group just chooses whatever group they think would be most skilled at recruitment in an admittedly somewhat awkward situation. I know that some of the groups that presented in 2005 mentioned UVA & V-Tech. One even mentioned flying a chapter in from Texas. (!!!!!!!)

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

The thing is that the way they did matching when KD and Pi Phi colonized was that the colonizing group had a quota of 70 and everybody else divided what was left... so frankly, ADPi is going to get MOST of the girls.... The competition for the 20 or so spots the other houses each have is probably going to be fierce...

Could you please expand more on "the colonizing group had a quota of 70 and everybody else divided what was left"? This type of colonizing (i.e. during formal) is fascinating.

Specifically, how does the whole preference party thing work? For sake of discussion, say the numbers are the same. Does Alpha Delta Pi turn in their "first bid list" with 70 names while the other five chapters turn in their "first bid list" with 20? Is there a "second bid list" etc.?

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Yeah, I guess they just skip the interview part at W&L colonizing recruitments if they're doing full-on formal recruitment with the other groups? Or maybe one of the nights will sort of BE an interview night? I have no clue. Sorry I'm not more help.

Directed to anyone...

Not to get into membership selection, but in a full-on formal recruitment, if there isn't an interview (by whom ever the expansion team sends etc.), then *generally speaking*, how does it work? Does the recruitment mirror the other chapters? I can understand how philanthropy night would be easy to convey. But say for example, if it is "skit night" or "spirit night". Do the undergraduate girls (i.e.the ones from other chapters) and/or alumnae perform a skit? I'm not trying to be silly, but I am curious as to how it might work since the concept of NPC formal recruitment is to put all the chapters on some sort of equal footing.

And do the undergrads from the other colleges get a say in member selection?

Thanks for the indulgence.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Could you please expand more on "the colonizing group had a quota of 70 and everybody else divided what was left"? This type of colonizing (i.e. during formal) is fascinating.

Specifically, how does the whole preference party thing work? For sake of discussion, say the numbers are the same. Does Alpha Delta Pi turn in their "first bid list" with 70 names while the other five chapters turn in their "first bid list" with 20? Is there a "second bid list" etc.?



Directed to anyone...

Not to get into membership selection, but in a full-on formal recruitment, if there isn't an interview (by whom ever the expansion team sends etc.), then *generally speaking*, how does it work? Does the recruitment mirror the other chapters? I can understand how philanthropy night would be easy to convey. But say for example, if it is "skit night" or "spirit night". Do the undergraduate girls (i.e.the ones from other chapters) and/or alumnae perform a skit? I'm not trying to be silly, but I am curious as to how it might work since the concept of NPC formal recruitment is to put all the chapters on some sort of equal footing.

And do the undergrads from the other colleges get a say in member selection?

Thanks for the indulgence.

Thanks for the questions TSteven. Right now you're getting to the point where it's pushing my knowledge of past recruitments at W&L. OK.

In 1991, a NPC group attempted to colonize at Washington and Lee and failed. They conducted their colonization efforts AFTER formal recruitment. There were just not enough women that didn't go Greek in formal recruitment to support a strong colony. So in 1992, when Pi Beta Phi (my chapter, by the way) colonized, they held recruitment the way I've mentioned - with a quota of 70 (total at W&L) for Pi Phi and everyone else dividing what was left among the other three groups according to normal quota assignment formulas. This procedure was again used in 1997 with Kappa Delta. I was guessing around 20 for the other groups' quota because:

W&L's 2008 quota = 37 (I think)
37 x 5 = 185 women pledged (technically there were more than this because some groups got quota plus, but for the sake of simplicity)
185 - 70 = 115, approximately the number left after taking out a colonizing class
115 / 5 = 23, my conjectural 2009 quota for the "original" 5 groups

As far as bid lists go, that would be correct. ADPi would turn in their first bid list with 70 names. The other groups' first bid lists would have 23, or whatever the quota turns out to be in reality.

It's also possible ADPi could take average chapter size rather than total of 70. Average chapter size is going to be a significantly higher number than 70, but at the same time, taking that many wouldn't leave many members left over for the other groups.

As far as membership selection, I am much less qualified to answer that question. I do know (as stated before in this thread I think) that Pi Phi and KD both used a combination of alums, national officers, and actives from other schools to conduct their colonizing recruitments. I know that the William & Mary Pi Phi chapter was the one who came for my chapter's recruitment (don't know about KD). As far as ADPi goes it looks like a combination of different Virginia chapters, maybe led by GWU, will be participating.

I agree with you that certain nights would be easier than others. Philanthropy night should be easy. Sisterhood night should also be fairly easy - it's basically a sisterhood video so a national expansion video could probably be used, or the national office could make something new. Skit night... might be harder. I guess they'd get the collegiates to do a skit?

It's also possible that the colonizing groups do other activities that don't necessarily line up with the "official" theme for the night. I am sure W&L Panhel would give them a lot of leeway on this. I also don't think it would really hurt them in recruitment because the PNMs would understand the need for the difference. Quite honestly, though, I just don't know enough about what happened with Pi Phi and KD to speak to this, and of course ADPi could always do its own thing.

As far as membership selection... frankly, without formal interviews (and I don't see how formally interviewing EVERYONE would be possible in this setting), I don't see how they couldn't use the other collegiates' feedback in membership selection to some extent. By the very nature of the beast, the collegiates are probably going to outnumber alums, I would think. I just don't see how a small group of alums or national officers could legitimately meet all the PNMs during this type of recruitment. But again, I don't have any specific knowledge of how that worked in Pi Phi or KD's colonization.

I could, I suppose, email some of our founding members to find out. I know a few...

[33girl]

Here's something I wondered about...

If there is going to be a significant contingent of women who are only interested in being in the colony (upperclassmen, ADPi quintuple legacies, what have you), won't it kind of suck for the girls in the other sororities to have to (un-PC here) waste time being nice to them?

Or is it a moot point since they'll get cut on the first night?

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Here's something I wondered about...

If there is going to be a significant contingent of women who are only interested in being in the colony (upperclassmen, ADPi quintuple legacies, what have you), won't it kind of suck for the girls in the other sororities to have to (un-PC here) waste time being nice to them?

Or is it a moot point since they'll get cut on the first night?

LOL. This question makes me laugh.

I would guess that a lot of upperclass women are going to register with the sole purpose of joining ADPi. At W&L, there's always a handful of sophomores that rush but usually no juniors or seniors. I think some juniors and seniors will probably rush with the intention of going ADPi or nothing. The sophomores will probably be open to ADPi but also looking at the other groups (frankly, a lot will depend if they didn't receive a bid period their first year, if they didn't like the bid options they got, or if they just didn't make grades freshman year).

Quite honestly though, I don't think that will be significant contingent of upperclass women going through recruitment. There are usually like MAYBE 10 sophomores going through. Max. So maybe, possibly, like 30-35 upperclassmen total? That would be a huge stretch I think though. I just don't know. And TBH some of the women who really desperately want to join the new group might not still be... the ideal candidates.

I think all the groups at W&L will be nice to the girls. I was always impressed that the "top" group at W&L ran the nicest recruitment and people always had the best experience with them even if they knew from day 1 they would not get a bid there. Also, I was always impressed that girls who knew they wanted to join that group were nearly always (there were a few exceptions) very friendly and open during recruitment, despite the fact that we both knew they didn't want to join my group. LOL. I can't say that for all the groups at W&L, by far.

I would think the juniors & seniors get cut at the established houses pretty quickly. Everyone will know why they are rushing. Sophomores, it's anyone's guess. I've seen people who got rejected at one house one year join it the next because the people in their class are on board with them joining.

I would think there's a lot of ADPi legacies at W&L, but frankly if they're from certain backgrounds they might want to join the top established group over an untested group. Just being brutally honest there. I do think that some people who are less concerned about reputation will want to join ADPi as legacies. Or if their mom is a national officer or something of that sort.

Frankly, I guess my question is how "significant" the contingent of women who are going through recruitment ONLY for ADPi will be. I think most women will probably be looking at established houses as well as ADPi. And again, due to issues surrounding quota, there's a chance that a lot of women who put some other house #1 and ADPi #2 are going to end up in ADPi just because of the numbers game. The competition for the established houses is going to be really intense.

The other thing to consider is that I think one of the #1 factors affecting recruitment at W&L is friend groups. So you make all these friends on your hall first semester freshman year, and the girls all want to join a house together. I've seen this affect recruitment a lot of times in cases where one of the girls could get a "higher tier" group and she ends up joining the "lower tier" one to be with her friends. So maybe ADPi could nab a bunch of friend groups in this way.

[kath888]

I could be getting this mixed up with another school, but I remember reading in a college guidebook once something that i've always wondered about.

some girl was describing w&l recruitment and how it was great because people who don't get their first choice get placed in their 2nd choice, so noone gets left out. perhaps i am misinterpreting this, but how would that work out? is it just that by the time they get through to pref round they are guaranteed a bid if they "maximize their options"?

actually looking back on this now, that is probably what they meant. i was just so confused i guess because of how it was phrased...which i don't remember exactly. but if you have any insight i am curious

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by kath888

I could be getting this mixed up with another school, but I remember reading in a college guidebook once something that i've always wondered about.

some girl was describing w&l recruitment and how it was great because people who don't get their first choice get placed in their 2nd choice, so noone gets left out. perhaps i am misinterpreting this, but how would that work out? is it just that by the time they get through to pref round they are guaranteed a bid if they "maximize their options"?

actually looking back on this now, that is probably what they meant. i was just so confused i guess because of how it was phrased...which i don't remember exactly. but if you have any insight i am curious

There is no guaranteed bid system at W&L. Some schools guarantee you a bid if you maximize your options throughout recruitment - this is true. W&L does not.

That said, if you maximize your options, you will more than likely get a bid at W&L. It's a very small number who completely "fall through" recruitment (as it's known on campus) due to all the sororities releasing them. The majority of women who don't receive bids at W&L don't receive bids because they choose not to join certain groups.