Why do LGLO/MCGLOs follow NPHC practices?

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by tld221

exactly. and mimic is too strong a word. they werent going out and getting line jackets and what not, but ive seen made-up hand signs/calls, and wanting to participate in step shows. not often, but enough to get a rise out of the (few) NPHC greeks when i was in school.

There are some TKE chapters that "throw up" equilateral triangles with their hands, since the triangle is the main symbol of our fraternity. Some doing it with their index and middle fingers, some with their thumb and index finger (similar to the Delta's handsign).

I can't say ALL chapters do this, but my chapter does the first variation and I know other chapters, like UCF, have variation of the triangle hand sign.

But there a lot of other IFC/NPC groups that have hand signs. Off the type of my head I can recall seeing Phi Sigma Sigma, AOPi, AXiD, Phi Mu, and other orgs that have some kind of hang sign although none of them are official and widespread throughout ALL chapters.

We (TKE) don't have any kind of "call" though and I don't think any other chapter does.

And can I ask whats wrong with that? If I'm not mistaken, hand signs weren't around at the founding of ANY org, NPHC or other, so what's the big deal? And weren't ALL hand signs "made up" at one point? I can understand getting upset over stepping, but hand signs aren't a big deal unless they imitate one that an NPHC org has.

Originally Posted by tld221

now if theyd only mimic community services...

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Some doing it with their index and middle fingers, some with their thumb and index finger (similar to the Delta's handsign)

........

hand signs aren't a big deal unless they imitate one that an NPHC org has.

Hmm...

Seriously, though. I don't think there's a problem with organizations using hand signs, etc (most of the members have acknowledged that these are small aspects of the NPHC experience). There are issues when people say "I don't like what the NPHC stands for" or "The NPHC is not for me" then turn around and use these NPHC "traditions" (for lack of a better word).

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

We (TKE) don't have any kind of "call" though and I don't think any other chapter does.

Apparently the ones at her school did.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

And can I ask whats wrong with that? If I'm not mistaken, hand signs weren't around at the founding of ANY org, NPHC or other, so what's the big deal? And weren't ALL hand signs "made up" at one point? I can understand getting upset over stepping, but hand signs aren't a big deal unless they imitate one that an NPHC org has.

We've had threads on this topic already. Beyond duplicate handsigns and calls, it depends on the dynamics on that campus that create the perception that orgs are being copied and even mocked.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

What? She's saying that if you're going to mimick something, mimick the community service emphasis that the NPHC chapters on that campus had, too.

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

We've had threads on this topic already. Beyond duplicate handsigns and calls, it depends on the dynamics on that campus that create the perception that orgs are being copied and even mocked.

True. There are some campuses where if IFC/NPC groups throw up hand signs it isn't seen as a form of mocking or being disrespectful, but apparently at her campus it was.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

What? She's saying that if you're going to mimick something, mimick the community service emphasis that the NPHC chapters on that campus had, too.

It just sounded like when non-IFC/NPC Greeks say that all the IFC/NPC groups do is party and they don't do any service for the community, which isn't the case.

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

It just sounded like when non-IFC/NPC Greeks say that all the IFC/NPC groups do is party and they don't do any service for the community, which isn't the case.

On my campus IFC/NPC Greeks do more community service way more than the NPHC and other MCGLOs do.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

On my campus IFC/NPC Greeks do more community service way more than the NPHC and other MCGLOs do.

It's possible that the latter two just aren't doing the service on campus.

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

It's possible that the latter two just aren't doing the service on campus.

I'm not saying they do none, I'm saying I hear/see more IFC/NPC orgs here doing service than the others.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

I'm not saying they do none, I'm saying I hear/see more IFC/NPC orgs here doing service than the others.

I got what you were saying. I'm saying that it's possible that the service that the NPHC and LGLO/MCGLOs partook in were done off campus.

In my chapter, for example, we have a few service events that we do on campus (annual/bi-annual events). The bulk of our service, though, is done either off campus on our own, or with other chapters. These events may not be known to all the other Greeks, but trust that they get done.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

I'm not saying they do none, I'm saying I hear/see more IFC/NPC orgs here doing service than the others.

Which doesn't mean they actually do more.

I find that people just aren't familiar with what the other councils are doing. This is why I love campuses with Greek Offices that keep all the councils and campus community involved and informed about what every GLO is doing. That's how I was really able to know which IFC, NPC, and NPHC orgs truly WEREN'T doing anything (or were just doing a couple things a semester, which is lame) on or off campus.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

On my campus IFC/NPC Greeks do more community service way more than the NPHC and other MCGLOs do.

I know I'm late responding to this comment but I just have to throw in my 22 cents. When people make statements like this I just shake my head especially since some or all of the NPHC orgs have to do certain service projects/programs every semester or school year. It's mandatory. At least with my org it is and the calendar we have to comply with is not modest by any means. The only way a chapter could get away with not doing what is required is if their alumnae advisor wasn't doing her job. And even then it wouldn't be acceptable since a report has to be sent in to our national body at the end of every school year. So I have to agree with the others that just because you don't see everything doesn't mean things aren't going on. The undergrads may also have joint projects/programs with neighboring undergrad chapters and alumnae chapters away from their campuses.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

True. There are some campuses where if IFC/NPC groups throw up hand signs it isn't seen as a form of mocking or being disrespectful, but apparently at her campus it was.

Most IFC/NPC chapters either do not do a handsign (even if their organization has had a handsign for decades) or only do the handsign at certain times. So it isn't uncommon for IFCers and NPCers to not be familiar with their org's handsign, so of course nonIFC and nonNPCers will attribute handsigns to the orgs that are the most visible with them.

Outside of GC I have never seen NPCers and IFCers acknowledge that they have a handsign.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

It just sounded like when non-IFC/NPC Greeks say that all the IFC/NPC groups do is party and they don't do any service for the community, which isn't the case.

To me, it sounded like she's saying she can think of better things to duplicate. Not assuming that all of the IFC/NPC orgs on her campus weren't doing service, but I'd rather people get service motivation and ideas from one another (and even "compete" over who is servicing their community the most----if they want something to create pissing contests over) than unnecessarily adopt stepping and calls if most chapters in their organizations don't have them.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

It just sounded like when non-IFC/NPC Greeks say that all the IFC/NPC groups do is party and they don't do any service for the community, which isn't the case.

Come on, the average GCer knows that every org does service, on a national level at least. what the local chapter does of course is going to vary.

i just feel like those who mock are similar to Company A who come out with Product(tm) or PromotionalDealDuJour and then Company B, C and D do exactly the same thing. the example that comes to mind is how Subway's $5 Footlong. I dont even LIKE Subway, but for $5 ill take a sandwich. Meanwhile I LOVE LOVE LOVE Quiznos and while they also have the $5 subs, its really doesnt come up on my radar in the way Subway would. Quiznos is doing what Subway is doing, but i doubt they are going to accomplish what Subway did - in my opinion, kept their name relevant and on everyone's mind (cause lord knows i cant get that jingle out my head).

theyre doing what the first ones did, but not necessarily trying to accomplish what the first ones accomplished (or end up missing the mark overall).

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by tld221

i just feel like those who mock are similar to Company A who come out with Product(tm) or PromotionalDealDuJour and then Company B, C and D do exactly the same thing.

theyre doing what the first ones did, but not necessarily trying to (accomplish what the first ones accomplished (or end up missing the mark overall).

I understand what you're saying, but maybe the TKEs on your campus weren't doing the hand sign to mock?

I've seen a lot of chapters do the triangle, even "whiter" chapters and mixed chapters and etc. The triple triangle is the main symbol of TKE, and it has a lot of meaning and symbolism to us, so when we "throw it up" it isn't because we're trying to be like NPHC chapters or mock them.

I can't speak for any other IFC/NPC group though, just my own. And I'm not arguing with the fact that some chapters do it just because they think it's cool or they have wanna-be-downitis ... But in my fraternity, the equilateral triangle has a lot of significance and I don't think the chapters do it to mock.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by tld221

Come on, the average GCer knows that every org does service, on a national level at least. what the local chapter does of course is going to vary.

i just feel like those who mock are similar to Company A who come out with Product(tm) or PromotionalDealDuJour and then Company B, C and D do exactly the same thing. the example that comes to mind is how Subway's $5 Footlong. I dont even LIKE Subway, but for $5 ill take a sandwich. Meanwhile I LOVE LOVE LOVE Quiznos and while they also have the $5 subs, its really doesnt come up on my radar in the way Subway would. Quiznos is doing what Subway is doing, but i doubt they are going to accomplish what Subway did - in my opinion, kept their name relevant and on everyone's mind (cause lord knows i cant get that jingle out my head).

theyre doing what the first ones did, but not necessarily trying to accomplish what the first ones accomplished (or end up missing the mark overall).

I think your analogy misses the mark.