Why So Many Greek Letter Orgs?

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Eventually, as the generations pass and America changes, the niche of a lot of these orgs will diminish and people will need more reasons besides "oh I'm [insert ethnicity here] so I'm going to join a [insert ethnicity here] fraternity" to join these orgs.

I would hope that no one joins any organization solely based on their race or ethnicity. I realize that you've stated these organizations do not have a strong presence on your campus, but maybe you misunderstand what they're about?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I would hope that no one joins any organization solely based on their race or ethnicity.

Yep, it isn't just race or ethnicity because I've never had an aspirant say "...because I'M BLACK...DUH!!!" in an interview. That wouldn't go over well.

At the same time, race and ethnicity of the majority of aspirants and members will always be a big factor. That is a huge compotent of why we were founded, all that we have accomplished, and much of what we continue to do.

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I realize that you've stated these organizations do not have a strong presence on your campus, but maybe you misunderstand what they're about?

Exactly.

And, no, I do not believe that race or ethnicity will ever be UNimportant in America nor do I want the niche that BGLOs and MCGLOs fill to go away. As long as people realize that race or ethnicity don't have to "disappear" for it to no longer have negative implications.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Yep, it isn't just race or ethnicity because I've never had an aspirant say "...because I'M BLACK...DUH!!!" in an interview. That wouldn't go over well.

At the same time, race and ethnicity of the majority of aspirants and members will always be a big factor. That is a huge compotent of why we were founded, all that we have accomplished, and much of what we continue to do.




Exactly.

And, no, I do not believe that race or ethnicity will ever be UNimportant in America nor do I want the niche that BGLOs and MCGLOs fill to go away. As long as people realize that race or ethnicity don't have to "disappear" for it to no longer have negative implications.

You know, in all the interviews I've sat thru of aspirants, I've never once heard anyone say they wanted to join because they're Black either....LOL. But I bet some people out there think this is the case. If people knew more about us and our history, they would know that there are far more reasons (better reasons) for wanting to join our orgs.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

You know, in all the interviews I've sat thru of aspirants, I've never once heard anyone say they wanted to join because they're Black either....LOL. But I bet some people out there think this is the case. If people knew more about us and our history, they would know that there are far more reasons (better reasons) for wanting to join our orgs.

Definitely.

Just like someone interviews for a job that they initially wanted because they "won't be the only black person in the office, anymore." But the person doesn't say that, of course. Not that not wanting to be the only black person in the office is a bad thing, it just shouldn't be the only thing.

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by DSTRen

I would hope that no one joins any organization solely based on their race or ethnicity. I realize that you've stated these organizations do not have a strong presence on your campus, but maybe you misunderstand what they're about?

I'm sorry if I came off as not understanding what they're about. I understand that they fit a purpose in the Latin community and I appreciate it, but my post was referring to people who were talking about serving a "niche" catered to minority students. I was just trying to say that niches can change, and that it'll be interesting if the niches are the same 50 years from now.

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

It seems like you are demeaning or downplaying people's decision/the way they make their decision to join a particular GLO. That's like me assuming you said "I'm Hispanic, but assimilated, so I will join an IFC org". That's an uniformed assumption.

Again, if it came off like that then I didn't mean for it to. What I was trying to say that now there are still a lot of minorities that do not feel comfortable joining IFC/PC groups, which adds to the popularity of the cultural organizations; but 50 years from now, as the "minority" population grows and acceptance of other people grows and discrimination and racism decreases (hopefully it will), then maybe there will be more minorities who feel at home in an IFC/PC group and that the niche that these cultural orgs serve will not be as strong as they are now. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. But I get you're point, I didn't mean to imply that people who join these cultural orgs only do so because they're latin/asian/etc.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

For instance, we have chapters that consistently have a pool of 50+ interests, but we can afford to be uber-selective and end up with lines of 6-10.

Well now I know.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

At the same time, race and ethnicity of the majority of aspirants and members will always be a big factor. That is a huge component of why we were founded, all that we have accomplished, and much of what we continue to do.

Exactly. That was part of the point I was trying to make in my post. Race and ethnicity is/will always be a big factor of why people join these cultural organizations.

But 50 years from now, if we can imagine an America thats more integrated/tolerant/non-discriminative/whatever (if that ever happens) and more minorities feel at home in IFC/PC and join those orgs, then how will that affect the niche and role of these cultural orgs?

Then again, I'm sure there will always be people who aren't interested in "white" fraternities and sororities.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I'm sorry if I came off as not understanding what they're about. I understand that they fit a purpose in the Latin community and I appreciate it, but my post was referring to people who were talking about serving a "niche" catered to minority students. I was just trying to say that niches can change, and that it'll be interesting if the niches are the same 50 years from now.

The niche hasn't gone away in 100 years. It has only evolved. Look forward to more evolution without dissolution 50 years from now.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Exactly. That was part of the point I was trying to make in my post. Race and ethnicity is/will always be a big factor of why people join these cultural organizations.

But 50 years from now, if we can imagine an America thats more integrated/tolerant/non-discriminative/whatever (if that ever happens) and more minorities feel at home in IFC/PC and join those orgs, then how will that affect the niche and role of these cultural orgs?

America isn't going to change that much. The dynamics we see here are seen in various forms all over the globe. This industrialized nation works the way it works for a reason. I won't get into that.

As for the future: I will be a Delta Dear and I will enjoy hanging with the Spring 2058 Sorors. They might be more diverse in race and ethnicity and background. But my guess is that they will still be majority African diasporic, since this country is just one piece of the world puzzle of cultures, ethnicities, and overall human relations.

And that's a GOOD thing.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Then again, I'm sure there will always be people who aren't interested in "white" fraternities and sororities.

And there will always be "white" fraternity and sorority chapters and members who aren't interested in certain groups of people. But you are correct because we always discuss the similarities and differences between NPC and IFC and NPHC and MCGLOs in terms of founding purposes, traditions, operations, and programs. The similarities and differences are GOOD and I have no desire for a melting pot in terms of organizations or in terms of society. A salad bowl works perfectly as long as people seek understanding and fairness.

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The niche hasn't gone away in 100 years. It has only evolved. Look forward to more evolution without dissolution 50 years from now.

The niche of NPHC orgs hasn't gone away, but I was more referring to the other minority GLOs.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

America isn't going to change that much.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it'll change for the better, maybe for the worse.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The similarities and differences are GOOD and I have no desire for a melting pot in terms of organizations or in terms of society. A salad bowl works perfectly as long as people seek understanding and fairness.

I agree 100%

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

The niche of NPHC orgs hasn't gone away, but I was more referring to the other minority GLOs.

Your original quote that my Soror responded to didn't specify but I see that you referenced LGLOs, AGLOs, and MCGLOs in the rest of that post. I see the context of your post but what you said can easily apply across the board.

NPHC and LGLOs and MCGLOs aren't the only organizations where race and ethnicity are important/members often join because of race. This happens for "white" fraternities and sororities, too. Although these organizations are supposedly not "culturally specific" and whites often considered themselves to be mainstream and to not have a "race." Until the wonderful advancement of "whiteness" studies happened approx. 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it'll change for the better, maybe for the worse.

Well, your comment of change didn't imply a good or bad as far as I'm concerned. It simply implied that there will be so much diversity that everyone will become one gooblygob of humanity and there will no longer be a niche for particular types of organizations. I'm not psychic but don't foresee that happening across the board and don't particularly want that to happen.

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It simply implied that there will be so much diversity that everyone will become one gooblygob of humanity and there will no longer be a niche for particular types of organizations. I'm not psychic but don't foresee that happening across the board and don't particularly want that to happen.

Lol I think you're reading into what I wrote a bit much.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

But what will happen when their "niche" starts to subside and you have, for example, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th generation Asians/Hispanics/South-Asians/etc who are assimilated and don't feel the need to stick to an organization that promotes their culture? Will these organizations eventually die off, or will they stick around and continue to serve their purpose and niche?

I never said or implied that the US will become one big culture in the future. I said that as the demographics of this country changes that the niche for some organizations will probably diminish, not become extinct... and I posed a hypothetical question.

And I agree with you that I don't think we will become "one gooblygob of humanity" nor do I want that to happen either.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I never said or implied that the US will become one big culture in the future. I said that as the demographics of this country changes that the niche for some organizations will probably diminish, not become extinct... and I posed a hypothetical question.

It was obviously hypothetical. I wasn't reading too much into it, seeing as though your post could be interpreted a few ways.

I was just trying to place your hypothetical in a realistic context. When people say that "race will no longer be important"/"less of a need...." they are usually thinking of cultural absorption of some degree. If not for that, why would these organizations' niches substantially diminish?

If you're saying that the minority populations will increase so much in size that they near the majority, even this (or the power differentials that shift, accordingly) may not diminish a niche.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

NPHC and LGLOs and MCGLOs aren't the only organizations where race and ethnicity are important/members often join because of race. This happens for "white" fraternities and sororities, too. Although these organizations are supposedly not "culturally specific" and whites often considered themselves to be mainstream and to not have a "race." Until the wonderful advancement of "whiteness" studies happened approx. 20 years ago.

I'm not sure if this was where you're going, but do you mean historically Jewish fraternities and sororities?

Plus, there's Alpha Phi Delta. It was founded by and for Italian-Americans.

http://www.apd.org/about/thebeginning.php

I think that there are other NIC groups that began with a specific ethnicity but APD is the only one I know of.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I'm not sure if this was where you're going, but do you mean historically Jewish fraternities and sororities?



Plus, there's Alpha Phi Delta. It was founded by and for Italian-Americans.

http://www.apd.org/about/thebeginning.php

I think that there are other NIC groups that began with a specific ethnicity but APD is the only one I know of.

This is part of where I was going with this. Thanks for adding the detail.

The other part goes beyond ethnicities that have assimilated into "whiteness." Historically and majority "white" GLOs have their own histories that can't be ignored just because they don't formally state a "cultural" purpose or a "racial and ethnic community" that they historically or contemporarily target.

BTW, I think I'm just now seeing what Panther was really saying. I think that he specifically addressed AGLOs, LGLOs, and MCGLOs instead of applying it to all GLOs led to his point being misinterpreted.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

But 50 years from now, if we can imagine an America thats more integrated/tolerant/non-discriminative/whatever (if that ever happens) and more minorities feel at home in IFC/PC and join those orgs, then how will that affect the niche and role of these cultural orgs?

Then again, I'm sure there will always be people who aren't interested in "white" fraternities and sororities.

I think what you have to understand that there is a cultural difference between the two types of Greek systems, not just with regard to the racial makeup, but in how the orgs are run, their aims, and their purposes. I didn't choose an NPHC sorority because of my race, I chose it because of that cultural difference (among other reasons) - what the NPC system has to offer wasn't something that was appealing to me, although that's great that it works out for others.

If you look at each system simply for its merits without thinking about the racial aspect for a minute --- or better yet, taking your own race and GLO-bias out of the equation and just looking at the whole thing objectively that way, it's a pretty interesting perspective. It may help you understand better what I'm talking about.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I think what you have to understand that there is a cultural difference between the two types of Greek systems, not just with regard to the racial makeup, but in how the orgs are run, their aims, and their purposes. I didn't choose an NPHC sorority because of my race, I chose it because of that cultural difference (among other reasons) - what the NPC system has to offer wasn't something that was appealing to me, although that's great that it works out for others.

If you look at each system simply for its merits without thinking about the racial aspect for a minute --- or better yet, taking your own race and GLO-bias out of the equation and just looking at the whole thing objectively that way, it's a pretty interesting perspective. It may help you understand better what I'm talking about.

Great point! In the end, I think people need to not be so critical of other organizations no matter how long they've been around. These groups are not saying that anything is wrong with the existing groups so don't take their existence personally!

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I think what you have to understand that there is a cultural difference between the two types of Greek systems, not just with regard to the racial makeup, but in how the orgs are run, their aims, and their purposes. I didn't choose an NPHC sorority because of my race, I chose it because of that cultural difference (among other reasons) - what the NPC system has to offer wasn't something that was appealing to me, although that's great that it works out for others.

If you look at each system simply for its merits without thinking about the racial aspect for a minute --- or better yet, taking your own race and GLO-bias out of the equation and just looking at the whole thing objectively that way, it's a pretty interesting perspective. It may help you understand better what I'm talking about.

Thank you 'Ren!