Why So Many Greek Letter Orgs?

[PANTHERTEKE]

I do agree that there is an abundance of Greek orgs- especially the Mutlicultural, Asian, Latin, etc.

I understand the argument that they fit a niche on certain campuses, but I think it'll be interesting to see where all these newer orgs that were founded in 1980s on up are 50 years from now.

Most of these orgs were founded because their founders didn't feel at home with a "mainstream" historically White fraternity or sorority.

But what will happen when their "niche" starts to subside and you have, for example, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th generation Asians/Hispanics/South-Asians/etc who are assimilated and don't feel the need to stick to an organization that promotes their culture? Will these organizations eventually die off, or will they stick around and continue to serve their purpose and niche?

Take for example my school, FIU, that has about 39,000 students of which about 58% are Hispanic. You would think that the Latin fraternties/sororities- like the Lambdas, LTA, LUL, SLG, etc- would be huge at such a school, but actually that's not the case. The majority of people in IFC/PC groups are Hispanic and the demographics of the school reflect upon the demographics of Greeks, maybe because the Hispanics that grow up in S.Florida (where most FIU students are from) are 2nd, 3rd generation and grew up with a more "assimilated" lifestyle than in other hispanic parts of the country.

So what is my point? Eventually, as the generations pass and America changes, the niche of a lot of these orgs will diminish and people will need more reasons besides "oh I'm [insert ethnicity here] so I'm going to join a [insert ethnicity here] fraternity" to join these orgs.

Didn't mean to hijack, but its just something to think about.

[CULater]

well, to give credit, a lot of our chapters have just started to be founded in the past 5-10 years, and they are slowly expanding.

As far as 2nd-5th generation, you only have to look at the # of asian/latin fraternities and sororities in California to see that people are still joining by the droves. LTA's biggest line (29) was UCLA (spring 2008), and I know personally asian sororities in cali get soooo many girls to rush, bids, pledge, etc.

so, who knows, I agree it will be interesting 50 years from now where we all are...

[Elephant Walk]

[QUOTE=CULater;1651897]LTA's biggest line (29) was UCLA (spring 2008), and I know personally asian sororities in cali get soooo many girls to rush, bids, pledge, etc.QUOTE]

I've always found this fairly interesting and it is a total hijack of the thread...but why do Latino/other ethnic group sororities tend to follow the BGLO pattern instead of the traditionally white GLO pattern?

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I've always found this fairly interesting and it is a total hijack of the thread...but why do Latino/other ethnic group sororities tend to follow the BGLO pattern instead of the traditionally white GLO pattern?

This isn't necessarily the case. But, first, what are the characteristics of a "BGLO pattern" and a "traditionally white GLO pattern"?

[knight_shadow]

[QUOTE=Elephant Walk;1652704]

Originally Posted by CULater

LTA's biggest line (29) was UCLA (spring 2008), and I know personally asian sororities in cali get soooo many girls to rush, bids, pledge, etc.QUOTE]

I've always found this fairly interesting and it is a total hijack of the thread...but why do Latino/other ethnic group sororities tend to follow the BGLO pattern instead of the traditionally white GLO pattern?

I know there have been threads about this in the past. I'll post links if I can find any.

[preciousjeni]

[QUOTE=knight_shadow;1652726]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I know there have been threads about this in the past. I'll post links if I can find any.

I don't recall any threads that talk about why orgs go one way over another. But, I do know that there are many LGLOs/AGLOs/MCGLOs/etc. that use a more structured NPC-style formal recruitment as well as those that do things other ways. And, there are some that pledge in classes and some that pledge in lines, with all the differences that those words imply.

Within multicultural sororities, some, like Delta Xi Phi, are much more NPC-style oriented than orgs like Theta Nu Xi. And, others, like Zeta Sigma Chi, do things similarly to LGLOs. But, in all cases, it's not purely one way or another. Each org has its own uniqueness, so it's too simple to say they have NPC characteristics vs. NPHC characteristics.

I would also say that people don't allow for the possibility that newer orgs are creating a different category altogether that borrows from many different traditions. I believe it's in the "Incorporated" thread where an NPHCer stated that newer orgs emphasize innnnnncorporated because the founders thought it was cool when NPHC orgs did it. However, that's not entirely the case. OF COURSE, newer orgs borrow from older orgs, but it is not simply copycatting. The newer orgs may adopt some traditions, but they make them their own...similar to the way older organizations borrowed traditions from even older organizations and made them their own. And, honestly, some of the traditions that Greeks consider "theirs" today were a) not developed or instituted at the founding and, worse, b) frowned upon by the founders when they were still living.

Perhaps this topic should be brought up for discussion in its own thread. It may make for a good conversation. Want to start it, knight_shadow?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I don't recall any threads that talk about why orgs go one way over another.

I just tried finding links to previous threads, but I think answers have been mixed in with the "Why are there LGLOs/MCGLOs" and "Incorporated" threads.

Perhaps this topic should be brought up for discussion in its own thread. It may make for a good conversation. Want to start it, knight_shadow?

Will do

ETA:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=96395

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I do agree that there is an abundance of Greek orgs- especially the Mutlicultural, Asian, Latin, etc.

I understand the argument that they fit a niche on certain campuses, but I think it'll be interesting to see where all these newer orgs that were founded in 1980s on up are 50 years from now.

Most of these orgs were founded because their founders didn't feel at home with a "mainstream" historically White fraternity or sorority.

But what will happen when their "niche" starts to subside and you have, for example, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th generation Asians/Hispanics/South-Asians/etc who are assimilated and don't feel the need to stick to an organization that promotes their culture? Will these organizations eventually die off, or will they stick around and continue to serve their purpose and niche?

Take for example my school, FIU, that has about 39,000 students of which about 58% are Hispanic. You would think that the Latin fraternties/sororities- like the Lambdas, LTA, LUL, SLG, etc- would be huge at such a school, but actually that's not the case. The majority of people in IFC/PC groups are Hispanic and the demographics of the school reflect upon the demographics of Greeks, maybe because the Hispanics that grow up in S.Florida (where most FIU students are from) are 2nd, 3rd generation and grew up with a more "assimilated" lifestyle than in other hispanic parts of the country.

So what is my point? Eventually, as the generations pass and America changes, the niche of a lot of these orgs will diminish and people will need more reasons besides "oh I'm [insert ethnicity here] so I'm going to join a [insert ethnicity here] fraternity" to join these orgs.

Didn't mean to hijack, but its just something to think about.

i don't think you hijacked at all and i appreciate your perspective on this topic.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I understand the argument that they fit a niche on certain campuses, but I think it'll be interesting to see where all these newer orgs that were founded in 1980s on up are 50 years from now.

I too am looking to see what 50 years down the line looks like.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Most of these orgs were founded because their founders didn't feel at home with a "mainstream" historically White fraternity or sorority.

I would say that this is only partially. I think it has played a significant part in the foundings of organizations. Wanting something that supports/emphasizes your culture also plays a part.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

But what will happen when their "niche" starts to subside and you have, for example, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th generation Asians/Hispanics/South-Asians/etc who are assimilated and don't feel the need to stick to an organization that promotes their culture? Will these organizations eventually die off, or will they stick around and continue to serve their purpose and niche?

I don't have the numbers (I'm not even sure if this research has even been done), but I would argue the majority of people in culture specific orgs are not first generation Asians/Hispanics, etc, but in fact 2nd+ generation.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Take for example my school, FIU, that has about 39,000 students of which about 58% are Hispanic. You would think that the Latin fraternties/sororities- like the Lambdas, LTA, LUL, SLG, etc- would be huge at such a school, but actually that's not the case. The majority of people in IFC/PC groups are Hispanic and the demographics of the school reflect upon the demographics of Greeks

This would occur anywhere where the vast majority of the population of a college/university were all of X ethinicity. An NIC/NPC organization at an HBCU would predominantly African-American as the population of the university plays a huge role in membership in ANY GLO on campus. I don't think it should be a surprise that IFC/PC membership at FIU has a significant latino population if that is the majority of the school's population.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

maybe because the Hispanics that grow up in S.Florida (where most FIU students are from) are 2nd, 3rd generation and grew up with a more "assimilated" lifestyle than in other hispanic parts of the country.

I haven't been to S. FLA in a while, but I (personally) wouldn't say S. Floridian latinos are more "assimilated". But there are also degrees of assimilation (IMO), so it could be that we are thinking of different things.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

So what is my point? Eventually, as the generations pass and America changes, the niche of a lot of these orgs will diminish and people will need more reasons besides "oh I'm [insert ethnicity here] so I'm going to join a [insert ethnicity here] fraternity" to join these orgs.

It seems like you are demeaning or downplaying people's decision/the way they make their decision to join a particular GLO. That's like me assuming you said "I'm Hispanic, but assimilated, so I will join an IFC org". That's an uniformed assumption.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Eventually, as the generations pass and America changes, the niche of a lot of these orgs will diminish and people will need more reasons besides "oh I'm [insert ethnicity here] so I'm going to join a [insert ethnicity here] fraternity" to join these orgs.

I would hope that no one joins any organization solely based on their race or ethnicity. I realize that you've stated these organizations do not have a strong presence on your campus, but maybe you misunderstand what they're about?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I would hope that no one joins any organization solely based on their race or ethnicity.

Yep, it isn't just race or ethnicity because I've never had an aspirant say "...because I'M BLACK...DUH!!!" in an interview. That wouldn't go over well.

At the same time, race and ethnicity of the majority of aspirants and members will always be a big factor. That is a huge compotent of why we were founded, all that we have accomplished, and much of what we continue to do.

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I realize that you've stated these organizations do not have a strong presence on your campus, but maybe you misunderstand what they're about?

Exactly.

And, no, I do not believe that race or ethnicity will ever be UNimportant in America nor do I want the niche that BGLOs and MCGLOs fill to go away. As long as people realize that race or ethnicity don't have to "disappear" for it to no longer have negative implications.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Yep, it isn't just race or ethnicity because I've never had an aspirant say "...because I'M BLACK...DUH!!!" in an interview. That wouldn't go over well.

At the same time, race and ethnicity of the majority of aspirants and members will always be a big factor. That is a huge compotent of why we were founded, all that we have accomplished, and much of what we continue to do.




Exactly.

And, no, I do not believe that race or ethnicity will ever be UNimportant in America nor do I want the niche that BGLOs and MCGLOs fill to go away. As long as people realize that race or ethnicity don't have to "disappear" for it to no longer have negative implications.

You know, in all the interviews I've sat thru of aspirants, I've never once heard anyone say they wanted to join because they're Black either....LOL. But I bet some people out there think this is the case. If people knew more about us and our history, they would know that there are far more reasons (better reasons) for wanting to join our orgs.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

You know, in all the interviews I've sat thru of aspirants, I've never once heard anyone say they wanted to join because they're Black either....LOL. But I bet some people out there think this is the case. If people knew more about us and our history, they would know that there are far more reasons (better reasons) for wanting to join our orgs.

Definitely.

Just like someone interviews for a job that they initially wanted because they "won't be the only black person in the office, anymore." But the person doesn't say that, of course. Not that not wanting to be the only black person in the office is a bad thing, it just shouldn't be the only thing.

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by DSTRen

I would hope that no one joins any organization solely based on their race or ethnicity. I realize that you've stated these organizations do not have a strong presence on your campus, but maybe you misunderstand what they're about?

I'm sorry if I came off as not understanding what they're about. I understand that they fit a purpose in the Latin community and I appreciate it, but my post was referring to people who were talking about serving a "niche" catered to minority students. I was just trying to say that niches can change, and that it'll be interesting if the niches are the same 50 years from now.

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

It seems like you are demeaning or downplaying people's decision/the way they make their decision to join a particular GLO. That's like me assuming you said "I'm Hispanic, but assimilated, so I will join an IFC org". That's an uniformed assumption.

Again, if it came off like that then I didn't mean for it to. What I was trying to say that now there are still a lot of minorities that do not feel comfortable joining IFC/PC groups, which adds to the popularity of the cultural organizations; but 50 years from now, as the "minority" population grows and acceptance of other people grows and discrimination and racism decreases (hopefully it will), then maybe there will be more minorities who feel at home in an IFC/PC group and that the niche that these cultural orgs serve will not be as strong as they are now. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. But I get you're point, I didn't mean to imply that people who join these cultural orgs only do so because they're latin/asian/etc.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

For instance, we have chapters that consistently have a pool of 50+ interests, but we can afford to be uber-selective and end up with lines of 6-10.

Well now I know.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

At the same time, race and ethnicity of the majority of aspirants and members will always be a big factor. That is a huge component of why we were founded, all that we have accomplished, and much of what we continue to do.

Exactly. That was part of the point I was trying to make in my post. Race and ethnicity is/will always be a big factor of why people join these cultural organizations.

But 50 years from now, if we can imagine an America thats more integrated/tolerant/non-discriminative/whatever (if that ever happens) and more minorities feel at home in IFC/PC and join those orgs, then how will that affect the niche and role of these cultural orgs?

Then again, I'm sure there will always be people who aren't interested in "white" fraternities and sororities.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I'm sorry if I came off as not understanding what they're about. I understand that they fit a purpose in the Latin community and I appreciate it, but my post was referring to people who were talking about serving a "niche" catered to minority students. I was just trying to say that niches can change, and that it'll be interesting if the niches are the same 50 years from now.

The niche hasn't gone away in 100 years. It has only evolved. Look forward to more evolution without dissolution 50 years from now.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Exactly. That was part of the point I was trying to make in my post. Race and ethnicity is/will always be a big factor of why people join these cultural organizations.

But 50 years from now, if we can imagine an America thats more integrated/tolerant/non-discriminative/whatever (if that ever happens) and more minorities feel at home in IFC/PC and join those orgs, then how will that affect the niche and role of these cultural orgs?

America isn't going to change that much. The dynamics we see here are seen in various forms all over the globe. This industrialized nation works the way it works for a reason. I won't get into that.

As for the future: I will be a Delta Dear and I will enjoy hanging with the Spring 2058 Sorors. They might be more diverse in race and ethnicity and background. But my guess is that they will still be majority African diasporic, since this country is just one piece of the world puzzle of cultures, ethnicities, and overall human relations.

And that's a GOOD thing.

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

Then again, I'm sure there will always be people who aren't interested in "white" fraternities and sororities.

And there will always be "white" fraternity and sorority chapters and members who aren't interested in certain groups of people. But you are correct because we always discuss the similarities and differences between NPC and IFC and NPHC and MCGLOs in terms of founding purposes, traditions, operations, and programs. The similarities and differences are GOOD and I have no desire for a melting pot in terms of organizations or in terms of society. A salad bowl works perfectly as long as people seek understanding and fairness.