Gays in fraternites (pt. 2)

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

As long as you are acknowledging your faults and trying to do better, than it's not hypocrisy.

That's the reason I label it as hypocrisy. Most of the same fraternity guys who will use "morality" as a reason to exclude gays are not acknowledging their faults and trying to do better. Instead they've labeled their faults as manly or cool and homosexuality as disgusting and immoral. JMO.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

That's the reason I label it as hypocrisy. Most of the same fraternity guys who will use "morality" as a reason to exclude gays are not acknowledging their faults and trying to do better. Instead they've labeled their faults as manly or cool and homosexuality as disgusting and immoral. JMO.

I see your point. I was really responding to DSTRen13:

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

Regarding hypocrisy: Of course Shiner is a hypocrite. I am a hypocrite, as well. All Christians are hypocrites. It's the nature of Christianity. We acknowledge our faults, and acknowledge that there are rights and wrongs (while we may all disagree on what those are). Therefore, we do things CONSTANTLY that we know are wrong, and we will still tell you that those things are wrong, and that other things are wrong as well. If we don't, then we can't try to do better.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I see your point. I was really responding to DSTRen13:

Yep

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Hardly. That's not what hypocrisy means. It's not hypocritical to hold others and (one's self) to high standards even though we know we will all from time to time fail to meet them.

Hypocrisy, by definition, is pretending to have values or moral standards that you do not actually have. It is holding others to a standard, and giving the appearances of holding yourself to that same standard, when in fact you do not hold yourself to that standard.

As long as you are acknowledging your faults and trying to do better, than it's not hypocrisy.

I would agree; however, SB hasn't indicated anywhere in this thread that he is "pretending to have values or moral standards that [he] does not actually have", and yet he is accused of hypocrisy. I don't think it's a fair charge. I don't agree with his values/moral standards about 90% or more of the time, but he does seem pretty consistent on them and I see no reason to believe that he doesn't truly hold those values.

[Buttonz]

I have a friend who is gay who was afraid to rush. He thought he wouldn't wind up with any bids, because it's clear that he is gay. After the first night, he had two favorites (from 3 fraternities on campus at that time). He received bids to both.

In the one that he joined, there are a few gay men. Nothing wrong with it.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

For the sake of discussion, I have to disagree with several of you.

To me, the worst part about being gay isn't the whole taking it up the butt thing (which I find pretty terrible in itself- exit only!). It's the fact that I find it so immoral and gays don't. What else do they find acceptable that I believe is completely appalling?
I would struggle to overcome their general viewpoints in order to be their friend.

Sounds a lot like he finds gays to be inferior than him.

Originally Posted by macallan25

.....and I'm offended that you're such a whiny, cry baby homosexual. What gives?

This very much sounded like you are denigrating him as a homosexual.

Originally Posted by macallan25

Everybody that answered the guy gave honest and mature responses. Has anyone been cocky or arrogant about it either?, that's ridiculous. I've read this entire thread for the most part and haven't really seen that at all.

What "frat guys" on here have said anything about the "disgusting behavior of gay men"? Perhaps I missed that part too. Furthermore, trying to use the whole "you drink and have sex so you aren't any better" b.s. cop-out has already been run into the ground.

Also, has anybody said anything about being "better" than anyone either? I don't think so, maybe someone has.

I think that you may be reading these threads with rose colored glasses, Macallan. Here is a definition of Hubris from Wikipedia "In Ancient Greece, "hubris" referred to actions taken in order to shame and humiliate the victim, thereby making one-self seem superior." Many of the posts here fit this description to a T! I think the Bible saying that homosexuality is wrong has nothing to do with your real reasons for not wanting a homosexual man in your fraternity, but you use it because you feel like it's a good argument. If you look through these posts, the majority really don't want any homosexuals in their fraternities because homosexuality is "gross", "disgusting", "uncomfortable" etc. Own how you really feel and don't hide behind the Bible (especially when you [in the general, all mankind, sense] break many of the commandments and dictates daily!)

[macallan25]

I know what hubris means. I haven't read any posts in this thread that are meant to shame and humiliate the OP.

I didn't use the Bible for my reasonings at all. If you'll go back and read the post where I referenced it, you'll see the context in which it was used. The OP made a statement basically saying that if guys are truly Christians, then it shouldn't matter what sexuality someone is because Jesus taught us to be accepting of everybody. I simply stated that the Bible considers homosexual behavior a sin. I never once said that I wouldn't want a homosexual in my fraternity because it's a sin according to the Bible.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Sounds a lot like he finds gays to be inferior than him.


This very much sounded like you are denigrating him as a homosexual.

I don't believe he said anything expressing that he is superior to homosexuals. I believe he said that he finds homosexuality grossly immoral.

As for what I said........again, if you would have actually read the thread you would have seen that I was sarcastically responding to this statement:

I am offended you're such a cock! So, would you tell me that you banged your mother last night if I was in your fraternity, or that you licked your dog's nuts?

But hey, I guess it's ok for him to call people names and say filthy things about their mothers and pets.........he's a homosexual and we should be compassionate. Isn't that right??????

[brownsugardivah]

My views about gays in fraternities are nothing. I think you should judge a person by their character and not their sexual preference. Same as I would view lesbians who were in my auxiliary. I judge them by their heart and service to the organization. HOWEVER the representation of the organization is at stake. If someones personal relationships are going to affect the organization in a NEGATIVE way than something should be done to prevent it or that individual should keep personal issues and their service to their organization separate.

[62231]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Sounds a lot like he finds gays to be inferior than him.

You're right. I can't stand the gay community in general, so by default, I don't give any individual gay person I meet a chance. I know that a sin is a sin, and there is no difference in God's eyes, but there sure as hell are differences in my own.

I thought it would be kinder if I was more tactful, but at least now you feel vindicated.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by naacp ultrafan

If it were proven that being gay was indeed genetic, wouldnt that mean that gays are indeed inferior, or genetic aberrants since one of the primary functions of any species is to sexually reproduce?

Either way, I dont like gays nor would tolerate any one who was out in my fraternity. What they do as alumni is their own business; I don't have to talk to them at tailgates.

Interesting point about Alumni in KA!

I will and I am sure along with many others will tell you that those Alums you wish to ignore are many times the back bone of not only your chapter, but your Fraternity!

You may not know whom they are, but maybe it is time to learn! Ignorance is in the eye only.

Oh, are there no gays in the NFL or NBA or MLBB?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

You're right. I can't stand the gay community in general, so by default, I don't give any individual gay person I meet a chance. I know that a sin is a sin, and there is no difference in God's eyes, but there sure as hell are differences in my own.

I thought it would be kinder if I was more tactful, but at least now you feel vindicated.

Thanks for your honesty.

[62231]

I do what I can.

[libelle]

Originally Posted by naacp ultrafan

If it were proven that being gay was indeed genetic, wouldnt that mean that gays are indeed inferior, or genetic aberrants since one of the primary functions of any species is to sexually reproduce?

Been studying your Nazi eugenics propaganda?

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by Bowsandtoes1000

Oh and as for gays ... most fraternities would ball them in a heartbeat

Awesome.