Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Pebcake · #1 04-21-2008, 12:27 PM

According to the NBC news, the raid was organized because of a call from a girl claiming abuse. To date, this girl has not been identified. I am not an advocate for this group. I am an advocate for our rights. If an unidentified person claimed you had abused your child, your child would be taken from you and kept from you until authorities decided rather you should have your child.

MysticCat · #2 04-21-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pebcake

According to the NBC news, the raid was organized because of a call from a girl claiming abuse.

According to many news reports I have seen and read, the raid was organized because of years of suspicion about what was going on at the ranch/compound/whatever you want to call it. The call from the girl was simply the trigger that allowed the raid to occur legally.

Pebcake · #3 04-21-2008, 01:42 PM

'Years of suspicion' - What a frightening phrase. For years, many in our area have suspected that abuse to children and elders occurs daily in the inner city. Most everyone is aware of it. No one gets together a swat team and pulls out the children. Is it that when one group is targeted, (esp. a group we have suspicions about) we all have to 'save the children'? We don't know what we will do with the children, but we will make a splash. Probably some of the children in the compound have been abused, but probably less than are abused everyday in the inner cities. Abuse, anytime and to anyone, is wrong. But the trauma to the people involved in this 'rescue' is probably worse than any they suffered before. I do not wish to anger anyone, I just think it is easy to quote aritcles and unintentionally harm more than help. Maybe these charges could have been handled differently. Maybe the children not being abused could have avoided the trauma of this upheaval.

33girl · #4 04-21-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pebcake

'Years of suspicion' - What a frightening phrase. For years, many in our area have suspected that abuse to children and elders occurs daily in the inner city. Most everyone is aware of it. No one gets together a swat team and pulls out the children. Is it that when one group is targeted, (esp. a group we have suspicions about) we all have to 'save the children'? We don't know what we will do with the children, but we will make a splash. Probably some of the children in the compound have been abused, but probably less than are abused everyday in the inner cities. Abuse, anytime and to anyone, is wrong. But the trauma to the people involved in this 'rescue' is probably worse than any they suffered before. I do not wish to anger anyone, I just think it is easy to quote aritcles and unintentionally harm more than help. Maybe these charges could have been handled differently. Maybe the children not being abused could have avoided the trauma of this upheaval.

What the heck is your problem with the inner cities??? This is coming off as anti-urbanism to me.

Pebcake · #5 04-21-2008, 02:03 PM

LOL, 33, that is funny, as I live on a large farm.

MysticCat · #6 04-21-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pebcake

But the trauma to the people involved in this 'rescue' is probably worse than any they suffered before.

Somehow I doubt it.

BTW, is your "inner city" abuse occuring in a compound that is essentially closed to outsiders?

Are the children (and the women, for that mattter) allowed to leave? (Not do they lack the ability to leave, but are the actually prevented, at risk of their eternal salvation, from leaving?)

Are the cases of abuse all individual, or is it part of a pervasive social system, perceived to be divinely prescribed, imposed within the compound?

Do you have strong reason to believe that the residents of the compound came there not that long ago because local authorities and local media were looking at them a little too closely where they were before?

Was the leader of the group that the people in your inner city belong to recently convicted for statutory rape for activities directly related to the claims of child abuse in this most recent case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

As for the timing and the way this was carried out, I strongly suspect that somewhere in the future, we will find out that there is a lot more beneath the surface of this story than we know right now.

I think you're right about that.

macallan25 · #7 04-21-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pebcake

According to the NBC news, the raid was organized because of a call from a girl claiming abuse. To date, this girl has not been identified. I am not an advocate for this group. I am an advocate for our rights. If an unidentified person claimed you had abused your child, your child would be taken from you and kept from you until authorities decided rather you should have your child.

......and there is something wrong with making sure a child isn't being abused?

Drolefille · #8 04-21-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The men have definitely taken the back seat and it seems to be both due to the gender norms in their sect and also about what appeals to the "court of public opinion."

They showed a few men at the court hearing the other day and interviewed a couple of them. However, it seems like the women (surprise, surprise) are taking a lot of the blame for this and are the ones who are very visible because they are appealing on behalf of motherhood/what's supposedly best for the kids.

I think that this may be related to the polygamy. Since many of these women aren't legally married, they're often collecting public aid as a single mother. If the fathers take responsibility for the children of his extra wives, both parents can be prosecuted for fraud. Essentially they'd have to admit to the polygamy and/or to the identities of the fathers so the state could pursue child support. Apparently this is one of the more common ways that polygamy of this sort is prosecuted.

Also possible that the guys are even creepier looking.

DSTCHAOS · #9 04-21-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think that this may be related to the polygamy. Since many of these women aren't legally married, they're often collecting public aid as a single mother. If the fathers take responsibility for the children of his extra wives, both parents can be prosecuted for fraud. Essentially they'd have to admit to the polygamy and/or to the identities of the fathers so the state could pursue child support. Apparently this is one of the more common ways that polygamy of this sort is prosecuted.

Good point. Also, since people have evidence of what they are doing, anyway, couldn't more evidence be found to prosecute them for fraud?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Also possible that the guys are even creepier looking.

The guys they showed didn't look as creepy as the women.

Drolefille · #10 04-21-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Good point. Also, since people have evidence of what they are doing, anyway, couldn't more evidence be found to prosecute them for fraud?

The guys they showed didn't look as creepy as the women.

Haven't seen the guys myself yet.

I get the impression it's a bit like prosecuting the mob for tax fraud. We all know they're in polygamous marriages, but unless they admit to it we can't prove it since there's no public documentation.

SigKapSweetie · #11 04-21-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I get the impression it's a bit like prosecuting the mob for tax fraud. We all know they're in polygamous marriages, but unless they admit to it we can't prove it since there's no public documentation.

Awesome comparison.

Pebcake · #12 04-21-2008, 08:19 PM

That really is a great comparison.

Drolefille · #13 04-21-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

......and there is something wrong with making sure a child isn't being abused?

Thank you!

And Pebcake, you're exaggerating. The state does not take children no matter the complaint, but they investigate (in this case it was a "raid") and then take action based on their investigation. YES they're going to go to the home (compound) and YES they're going to take every accusation seriously.

The FLDS who are complaining that the call was a fraud are missing the point that any complaint is investigated. I could call on the compound in Arizona right now and "complain" and someone would go investigate.

Pebcake · #14 04-21-2008, 03:23 PM

I may be wrong, but I did watch a segment on 20/20 where the parents were on the program because there had been a complaint that there was abuse happening in the household. The social worker came, couldn't decide if it might be true or not, so took the child just to be safe. Turns out the call had been made by a disgruntled nanny. In the meantime, the child was raped in the foster home. I don't remember which state the story focused on.

Leslie Anne · #15 04-21-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pebcake

I may be wrong, but I did watch a segment on 20/20 where the parents were on the program because there had been a complaint that there was abuse happening in the household. The social worker came, couldn't decide if it might be true or not, so took the child just to be safe. Turns out the call had been made by a disgruntled nanny. In the meantime, the child was raped in the foster home. I don't remember which state the story focused on.

Um, okay....and this little anecdote fits into the topic at hand how?