The Hazing Tradition

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Gotcha. Thanks.

You weren't supporting a chapter disaffiliating but those who choose to go local, do they concede their ability to remain active with SAE when they graduate?

The way people see their organizations as a crazy co-ed is often different than they will when they get older and more mature. Assuming that some of these people don't see their fraternity as something they did for college and that's it.

That is a good question. I would assume that if a chapter went local then their allegiance would remain with the chapter outside of college. I'm not really sure how it would work if a graduated member of a local wanted to remain involved with the national chapter that they were previously affiliated with. I wouldn't think that they would be rejected if they wanted to donate money or something like that.

You know, I'll probably approach being in a fraternity when I am out of college the same way my dad did. Yes, it was a "college thing" for him, but he still donates to the chapter, goes to events at the chapter (game day tailgates, golf tournaments, etc.) I think we both view the fraternity experience as a life long one in the sense of friends we have made...things of that nature.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by macallan25

That is a good question. I would assume that if a chapter went local then their allegiance would remain with the chapter outside of college. I'm not really sure how it would work if a graduated member of a local wanted to remain involved with the national chapter that they were previously affiliated with. I wouldn't think that they would be rejected if they wanted to donate money or something like that.

I think that probably the same thing would happen that happens when a chapter goes from local to national. Some people are not in favor of it and don't stay involved. It goes both ways. Even if the majority of people are in favor of it, I think that there are always at least a few who aren't in favor of the transition. Whether they voice that opinion is another matter.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Quantity does NOT equal quality. One of the worst problems is they're "adding chapters at an impressie rate." Not good. I'm sure they'll be opening them at Community Colleges soon. Throw in BMP with "adding chapters at an impressive rate" and you have at least in the South, a poor image. A "Sigma Phi Everyone" image. There are chapters, like bows, which are exceptions of course.

I agree. Doing away with selectivity decreases the value of the experience. Our chapters may not have hazing anymore in many cases, but membership is still something that is earned. I'll bet Sig Ep could be even bigger if they went co-ed. Someone might want to let them know.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by oldu

While several of you are bashing Sigma Phi Epsilon about their Balanced Man Program, they must be doing something right. They have the largest undergraduate membership . . . .

An interesting claim/observation given that the fraternity system as a whole is historically predicated on a certain elitism of "taking only the best."

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I go to the University of Arkansas.

I've indicated this repetitively.

You know, show me when DKE or SAE at Alabama get busted. Phi Delt or Sigma Nu at Ole Miss. DKE at Yale. Strong chapters. I'm not saying any of these haze though I have a good idea, but show me a strong chapter that nationals even thinks of threatening. Some of these chapters would have to sacrifice three pledges on the front steps of the nationals building to be thought about bringing up.

Hey EW:
In your "book" does Texas Count???

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Hey EW:
In your "book" does Texas Count???

Texas absolutely counts and my point was made.

To my knowledge, SAE was already under hazing probation (this could be cleared up, but I believe they were), and they got a slap on the wrist.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Texas absolutely counts and my point was made.

To my knowledge, SAE was already under hazing probation (this could be cleared up, but I believe they were), and they got a slap on the wrist.

A "Slap on the Wrist"??????
Not too sure just what you are reading or drinking.
You may wish to re-read all of that thread again real slow and with greater care.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by jon1856

A "Slap on the Wrist"??????
Not too sure just what you are reading or drinking.
You may wish to re-read all of that thread again real slow and with greater care.

I read it.

But for what happened, even if SAE had nothing to do with it, it's a slap on the wrist. Especially since they were apparently already on hazing probation. None of that is going to be enforced especially the unannounced visits by whomever. They didn't get kicked off campus like what would've happened on any other campus.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I read it.

But for what happened, even if SAE had nothing to do with it, it's a slap on the wrist. Especially since they were apparently already on hazing probation. None of that is going to be enforced especially the unannounced visits by whomever. They didn't get kicked off campus like what would've happened on any other campus.

Read it again.
I think you missed something.
And BTB-Did you change schools again? You now seem to know a great deal about Texas.

[bowsandtoes]

TABC and APD already makes pretty regular 'unannounced' visits to our houses during parties so its not like this is big news. Even if they didn't have this agreement they would find a way to work their agenda.

[macallan25]

It'll work out fine.

[Day13]

You know it may be all this cramming for exams but this debate of dropping nationals and focusing on the chapter reminds me of a small event that happened before.

American Civil War.


Little conflict, anyone heard of it? The confederate south (SEC or what have you)wanted power to focus more on the individual state (chapter) instead of having a national government (HQ) that was miles away reform how things have always been in their respective state (chapter).

I understand the appreciation of seeing all that has come before you on worked on the national organization to allow your chapter to be there. But when you are a chapter that is 75+ years old your chapter probably has a pretty rich history of its own.

A simple example. Imagine if the NIC told a fraternity how things were going to be. Your fraternity would be pissed and say that is just not how we do things and possibly disaffiliate. (Phi Delt anyone?)

-------

I personally don't care if those chapters do or don't disaffiliate but I see why they would favor "Chapter Rights" and a confederal style of gov't.

[Elephant Walk]

That's somewhat it, honestly.

And I did read the rules. SAE got off scott-free. Which is good, but it proves my points. Strong chapters will not get taken down in the South.

Very little of those things that were written down are actually going to be followed through with. Maybe for a year or so.

[SWTXBelle]

Just a little historical aside - The War Between the States did not, alas, end up well for those who wanted to emphasize state's rights over centralized federal government. They were crushed by sheer numbers and resources. . .
( and NO - I'm not really continuing the analogy. I don't think . . . I don't know enough either way to be able to authoritatively say. But the analogy might not be the BEST if you are in favor of local chapter vs. nationals.)

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

And I did read the rules. SAE got off scott-free. Which is good, but it proves my points. Strong chapters will not get taken down in the South.

.

EW, you still did not get it. You are so hung up on National/School matters, you seem to over look the fact that there are also Govermental agencies that have an interest in GLO's.
Once again I do have to ask you: Did you change schools once again? As you always seem to know every thing about anything at every GLO, at every campus, in every State.