A Multicultural Sorority?

[DSTCHAOS]

It isn't as cut and dry as Kevin is presenting it. That case had to go before court to set some precedent but that precendent will not apply in every instance.

Free speech isn't a free-for-all, so students' "free speech" is not a free-for-all. That applies to student organizations, as well. The University can regulate certain words and actions and tell students the appropriate forums for their expressions. Every college and university has a student handbook that make it clear that free speech is respected but that no one has the right to create an offensive and hostile environment.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It isn't as cut and dry as Kevin is presenting it. That case had to go before court to set some precedent but that precendent will not apply in every instance.

Free speech isn't a free-for-all, so students' "free speech" is not a free-for-all. That applies to student organizations, as well. The University can regulate certain words and actions and tell students the appropriate forums for their expressions. Every college and university has a student handbook that make it clear that free speech is respected but that no one has the right to create an offensive and hostile environment.

No. Universities try to assert this in many cases, but it's just not true.

You're right that free speech isn't a free-for-all, but the University's power to limit it (which exists) is extremely limited.

If you can, pull up the case I cited. The court almost treats the university's argument as frivolous.

In fact, the court later held in a subsequent action between the same parties in which the fraternity sought declaratory relief that the University couldn't ever initiate such proceedings, the court again held in Sigma Chi's favor, and as part of its holding said this:

"Because that fundamental right [speech] extends to students at a state university, a state university may not hinder the exercise of First Amendment rights simply because it feels that exposure to a given group's ideas may be somehow harmful to certain students." (citing another 4th Circuit case)

I think that pretty much wraps it up right there. Schools try this crap all over the country. Every time it goes to court, the school will be slapped down.

Just a cursory look through 8th Circuit cases led me to a similar situation in which a gay student organization who was forbidden from coming on campus at the University of Missouri was allowed to do so. The university complained that people would be offended, it was immoral, the group would make people homosexual (except for the last one, sound familiar?), but the court held that since this didn't fall within that short list of things I've posted a couple of times that the University had no business doing what it did.

Any of you lefties with westlaw/lexis access, feel free to find some cases which prove me wrong. Betcha can't.

[DaemonSeid]

nahnahnah


nyahhhhh!!!



isn't what it about sounded like?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

nahnahnah


nyahhhhh!!!



isn't what it about sounded like?

You forgot to say...

boobooo.....

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You forgot to say...

boobooo.....

yeah...you are right, and I forgot the sound effect for one giving another a rasberry...

something like thhhhhhhhhhppppttt!!!!

[DSTCHAOS]

And since freedom of speech isn't a free-for-all and Universities can dictate various aspects of students' freedoms, it isn't as cut and dry as you are presenting it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

And since freedom of speech isn't a free-for-all and Universities can dictate various aspects of students' freedoms, it isn't as cut and dry as you are presenting it.

Speech isn't one of those aspects unless the speech is obscene, child porn, constitutes a "clear and present danger" (see the Holmes test), etc. This sort of thing isn't on that list of exceptions. We have the right as individuals and groups to offend one another, be it through racially inflammatory speech or almost anything else. Otherwise, there are a lot of kids at Cal-Berkley who should probably be in prison.

It is that cut and dry. Really. Especially in this case.

Again, you and a lot of others are confusing the power a lot of universities claim to have and what the constitution says. You're all smart people -- you should know the Constitution trumps university policy.