Obama's comments about Pennsylvania

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I think "clinging" was the problem in the context of religion. Would you want to have your faith described as "clinging to religion"?

Personally, the Rev. Wright thing did make me question the genuineness of his faith or the genuineness of his political persona because it was hard to reconcile a freely chosen decision to go to that church with a pretty radical minister and then sell yourself as a moderate unifier. His comments about Wright didn't sell me after the fact. And the idea that he would follow up with referring to others who voted on religious issues as "clinging to religion" isn't helping either.

And I guess it doesn't make sense if you aren't already a conservative, but a lot of us don't even consider it the government's responsibility to find us jobs. So being really bitter and disillusioned about it seems unlikely to us.

I think Obama is on to something that should be discussed within the Democratic party about how to attract socially conservative, blue collar voters, but doing it in a way that suggests that the beliefs that these people consider worth voting on are somehow only a reflection of economic bitterness probably isn't going to help the overall cause.

The accuracy of what he said can be debated, I suppose; the stupidity of saying it publicly during the election probably can't. He had absolutely nothing to gain at this time.

True, and as he said a poor choice in words, and one that has been taken so far out of context since that there's little hope of explaining it to anyone who only gets their news from the 24hr networks.

Is a radical minister that different from a very conservative one? The Catholic Church is different since there is a set hierarchy, but despite the fact that I disagree with the current Archbishop of St. Louis on every major matter, if I were still living there I wouldn't leave the Church over it, nor will I now that I'm out of his diocese. Does a disagreement with a pastor's perspective on certain issues cause you to leave? Perhaps, perhaps not. A church is more than its minister and is not easily tossed aside (one might say he's clinging right?).

I still maintain that politicians throw friends, even those who say things that they agree with, under the bus. Obama defended his friend, even though he says things that Obama disagrees with, instead.

I don't consider it the government's responsibility to provide jobs, but every politician promises to improve the lot of whoever he or she is speaking to at the time, conservative or liberal. That may not be providing jobs, but supporting industry, budgeting money, or changing policy on a national level that helps your locale. Conservative or not, there are a lot of (blue collar particularly) workers who are angry at businesses for leaving and the government for allowing it and doing nothing to reverse it.

With regards to timing, the key is that he said what he did a month ago, not yesterday. It is unfortunate that it's coming out now, but I don't know how much it will actually change the minds of his supporters.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Master...I am afraid a translation is in order....

Sigh, young padawan, you have much to learn.

Plus you ignored the Saturday clarification in your post.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

All I have to say is...

I AM a Jesus-Lovin' Gun-toten hick with cynicism for the government that leaves me to be bitter to the point where I question ideas of hope and change.

I know a lot of people just like me in those regards too. We know who we are and how we feel. Obama pointing it out is not offensive, its just the truth.

[33girl]

I don't know why anyone is pissed off at this. It's just the truth. I think Drolefille explained it nicely.

I will say though, that for Hilary to act like she's sooo upset for the common folk and sooo wouldn't say anything "elitist" like this is the most ridiculous thing since I Love New York 2. This is the same woman who said being governor of Arkansas wasn't a big deal.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Sigh, young padawan, you have much to learn.

Plus you ignored the Saturday clarification in your post.

I caught it...I was outside enjoying something called "sunshine" and "warm air".



Actually tho...I think what happened (and agreeably so with what you said) is that people only dissected the part they found most offensive and ran with it as the knee jerk reaction that the media spin doctors were looking for...

Reading thru others' responses made me really wonder if anyone had actually read the whole thing in context and in order and if they still would have gotten the same thing from it.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I caught it...I was outside enjoying something called "sunshine" and "warm air".

You had those yesterday? I hate you. We had "clouds" "wind" and, oh yes, "snow".

Actually tho...I think what happened (and agreeably so with what you said) is that people only dissected the part they found most offensive and ran with it as the knee jerk reaction that the media spin doctors were looking for...

Media loves sound bites and controversy. And if that's what is repeated, particularly since this speech wasn't done on camera for easy reference, that's what people hear. They're still saying "Obama's bitter comment" while talking about the original comment, his clarification, Clinton's response, and his response to her.

Reading thru others' responses made me really wonder if anyone had actually read the whole thing in context and in order and if they still would have gotten the same thing from it.

Some certainly would have. People who are already polarized are going to see anything he says as confirmation of their point of view.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

You had those yesterday? I hate you. We had "clouds" "wind" and, oh yes, "snow".



Media loves sound bites and controversy. And if that's what is repeated, particularly since this speech wasn't done on camera for easy reference, that's what people hear. They're still saying "Obama's bitter comment" while talking about the original comment, his clarification, Clinton's response, and his response to her.


Some certainly would have. People who are already polarized are going to see anything he says as confirmation of their point of view.

Exactly...that's why in the other thread paralelling this one, I went over everything that has happened in the past 25 years (some may or may not agree) to show that Obama may have a point....I will say again....when the govt has messed with your money long enough...eventually you will get salty too...

It's nothing I hate worse that when someone establishes a business that 'guarantees job growth' and the only jobs offered are menial minimum wage type jobs...people are tired of jobs that doesn't pay anywhere near cost of living and people are tired of having the gov't constantly take away thier livelyhood and sent elsewhere.

SO yeah...when you live areas that are hard hit with disappearing life careers and that is all you know...I can't blame them for being pissed every 4 years and nothing changes for the better...it's not called being an elitist or out of touch.

Being out of touch is saying that people in those areas hardest hit can find a way to get by or that they need to catch up to the 21st century or "I don't see why they can't learn how to manage with what they have."