teacher assaulted by student, and caught on video

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

and you know for sure, that this was the case with this girl?

You still haven't answered my question...how can you ASSUME that this girl's family is on welfare?

And no, I am not comfortable with your answer "that the school that she goes to caters to this 'clientele' "cardboard answer that you gave.

Fact is, you don't know anything about Baltimore public schools beyond what you read...

Fact is, you don't know anything about the girl and the teacher based on what you saw on the video....

I mean you made the stereotypical statement that you can't garnish a welfare check right?

Now....pay attention, the other little school incidents that we have posted on, you barely made comments on ,short of your quote from Cicero ( very profound I must say) but yet here...it's judgemental?

I am so very curious as to what you think about the income levels and environments of the other school aged kids that we all have talked about these past few weeks and if your observations about that match what your assumption is here.

makes me wonder.....what if......?

There's a 44% chance the kid qualifies for reduced school lunch. She's in a school which is a hotbed of violence. Her parents haven't made an effort to put her in any of Baltimore's alternative schools. My assumption is based on probabilities. I've never implied otherwise.

I'm sure many of the other kids in recent months have come from similar backgrounds. Perhaps not.

My knowledge about the Baltimore school systems is based upon what I read -- this particular school's test scores don't paint a pretty picture.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

There's a 44% chance the kid qualifies for reduced school lunch. She's in a school which is a hotbed of violence. Her parents haven't made an effort to put her in any of Baltimore's alternative schools. My assumption is based on probabilities. I've never implied otherwise.

I'm sure many of the other kids in recent months have come from similar backgrounds. Perhaps not.

My knowledge about the Baltimore school systems is based upon what I read -- this particular school's test scores don't paint a pretty picture.

Income in some cases, doesn't always have anything to do with school violence.

My knowledge about the Baltimore school systems is based upon what I read -- this particular school's test scores don't paint a pretty picture


I never taught in an inner city school, and I work in law, therefore I am not qualified to talk about education economics / politics.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Income in some cases, doesn't always have anything to do with school violence.

My knowledge about the Baltimore school systems is based upon what I read -- this particular school's test scores don't paint a pretty picture


I never taught in an inner city school, and I work in law, therefore I am not qualified to talk about education economics / politics.

My wife teaches at an inner city school. My younger brother teaches at an inner city alternative school.

Income has nothing to do with school violence? In some cases, correct. In most cases, in fact, the vast majority, income is a reliable predictor of whether a school will be safe or not.

My wife's school, though having a very large percentage of lower income minorities is a very safe place. That's because it's a charter school though. Take the surrounding mainstream public high schools, though, and you'll see that in the wealthy areas, the public schools are great. There's excellent parental interaction, etc. Go to some of the poorer schools, such as the one my wife taught at in her first year of teaching, and you'll find that discipline is impossible, things are never the kids' faults, education is not valued, parents are either threatening to sue the school, or completely absent.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

My wife teaches at an inner city school. My younger brother teaches at an inner city alternative school.

But YOU never taught in that type of school...if you have relatives that DO...then you need to have a conversation with them about what you just said...

IMO you made a very bad assumption...and while you are at it....you may wantg to check out some of these gems and tell me about the income levels here, 'counselor'...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gt3HjkZWrk0

http://youtube.com/results?search_qu...r&search_type=

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

But YOU never taught in that type of school...if you have relatives that DO...then you need to have a conversation with them about what you just said...

IMO you made a very bad assumption...and while you are at it....you may wantg to check out some of these gems and tell me about the income levels here, 'counselor'...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gt3HjkZWrk0

http://youtube.com/results?search_qu...r&search_type=

I have. You think I never discuss my wife's job with her or my brother's job with him?

I'm very well acquainted with my wife's place of work, both at her present job and her former job. I interact with her kids on a fairly regular basis. Heck.. last weekend, we took two of her kids who won a class contest out to dinner at a very nice restaurant and then to the symphony (things their parents could never afford). I also volunteer at the concession stands quite a bit. I'm actually fairly well-known up there. Nice assumption though. I really hope that is enough for you to conclude that I have the ability to look at numbers which tell a fairly obvious story.

Those videos are the exception, not the rule.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I have. You think I never discuss my wife's job with her or my brother's job with him?

I'm very well acquainted with my wife's place of work, both at her present job and her former job. I interact with her kids on a fairly regular basis. Heck.. last weekend, we took two of her kids who won a class contest out to dinner at a very nice restaurant and then to the symphony (things their parents could never afford). I also volunteer at the concession stands quite a bit. I'm actually fairly well-known up there. Nice assumption though. I really hope that is enough for you to conclude that I have the ability to look at numbers which tell a fairly obvious story.

Those videos are the exception, not the rule.

You took them to dinner and theater...wow...want a cookie?

I took my kids to a library and got them library cards, I have kids now I am prepping for college....yup....uh huh

And BTW what happened last week was the exception also...and at the rate the school systems are having thier hands tied behind thier backs it's turning more and more into the rule because a lot of these school systems don't know what do do with these children today.

You interact with her kids...what do you know about them?

You work at a concession stand?

And? So? anybody can do that....do you accept WIC, Independance cards and food stamps?

You are not there daily....how well does she know them?

How well does she know their parents?

Do you volunteer to mentor them, tutor any of them or does it stop when the bells ring?

Even with all of that YOU STILL HAVE NO GROUNDS TO SAY that being poor for a child having a behavior problem SIMPLY BASED on the school she attends or where they live or who they are...and especially when you have zero information on them.

You may want to consider thinking about that before you post some similar absurdity next time.


P.S.

I am still blown that knowing what your relatives do you still could make an assumption that a Columbine like activity in an inner city school wouldn't register. I guess you believe that kids just go around arbitraily leaving death and destruction, shooting schools up like that in the 'hood on the regular a la GTA IV, hmmm?....heh...but then...that is par for the course when talking with you.



Have a Nice Weekend!!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Y YOU STILL HAVE NO GROUNDS TO SAY that being poor for a child having a behavior problem SIMPLY BASED on the school she attends or where they live or who they are...and especially when you have zero information on them.

I never said "simply based." Is your reading comprehension really that shoddy? I said more likely. Statistics don't prove absolutes, just likelihoods. If the schools are classified as dangerous places (and they are or should be), why are you even arguing with me?

As for mentoring, it's not something I've ruled out. It's just as I'm doing the law school thing while working full time, I'm extremely selfish with what time I have left over. Mentoring a kid right now would probably be a disservice to that kid. Kudos for you giving back and all -- but really, to use your own words, do you want a cookie for that?

[AKA_Monet]

Fellas,

My mother is a retired elementary school principal with a Ph.D. in education. I sent her the video. She said, that when she worked, she had to to take down a little 5 year old who was holding a heavy 3-hole punch/stapler and said she was going knock my mom's "lightbulbs" out... And within less than 3 seconds, my mom did go after her and take her down. Now this girl was rather large for her age and could do some damage to my mom. My mom, said she was going to protect her life and self-preservation. Threats cannot be taken idlely in this day and age, especially if there "probable cause".

@Kevin, I don't think a Columbine incident would happen in an inner city school. That is abnormal for kids in the hood. But these days, things change... It would be a sad day if it did happen and it would say how far we all are behind educating our ALL our children. It would say that NONE of the programs implemented work, that we should be LEGALLY segregated by race, ethnicity and economics and we will have more hatred and violence on our hands.

@Daemon, ultimately it will rest on us--African Americans. We let these kids get out of control--this much. I know it is too much to bear, right now. How, can this be stopped when so many of these kids parents are barely pushing 35 years old? Too many babies are having babies with no man in site and we welcome that wholeheartedly. And a small percentage of those in that situation will succeed to a rapidly declining "middle class" in the suburbs... So what more can we do?

[NappyBison]

It's amazing, teachers are afraid of students, parents are afraid of their children... I don't blame people for not wanting to teach anyone else's children these days. At the end of the day, I'm still a strong advocate of parents beating their children on a daily basis.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Kevin

My knowledge about the Baltimore school systems is based upon what I read -- this particular school's test scores don't paint a pretty picture.

It is also ludicrous that you would assume that test scores have any basis of anything.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by kstar

It is also ludicrous that you would assume that test scores have any basis of anything.

They are an indicator as to what kind of a learning environment exists. When 7% are passing a test as compared to 70% of their peers statewide, something is not right.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Kevin

They are an indicator as to what kind of a learning environment exists. When 7% are passing a test as compared to 70% of their peers statewide, something is not right.

I want you to remember 3 things:

Test scores should not be taken at face value, ignoring the various factors that influence them: for example, demographic changes in test takers or inflation of scores caused by test-based accountability, or in laymen's terms, teachers that "teach the test." Students aren't actually learning how to think, they learn the only the subjects covered by the test and how to take tests. There was a charter school in OKC (maybe the one your wife teaches at? I don't know...) that raised test scores significantly after they hired someone to come in and teach special test taking strategies to the students each day.

Simple aggregate scores are not a sufficient basis for evaluating education--unless they provide enough information to rule out noneducational influences on performance. Most test-score databases do not offer that kind of information.

Education is a complex mix of successes and failures, the teaching has to be tailored for each individual group of students, and what works for one teacher or student might not work for another. Unfortunately, this is often ignored.