DARK/LIGHT...SKIN COLOR.........Is this still an issue? Let's be honest Sorors & SF'

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Firstly, without genetics or epigenetics we cannot discuss ANYTHING about the human form...

Now if you're talking about albinism in the way that Iota is talking about, that's a different story. But you aren't. There are a few ways to explain how humans evolved to the form that we are and how we began to categorize ourselves without discussing genetics. That's a big part of the study of racial and ethnic inequality, for instance. But beyond the foundation of how we got here, there's an analysis of how we perceive these differences and the categorizations and value-ridden rankings that were humanly derived from them. The resulting categories and ranks (i.e. prejudices) of good vs bad and lightskin vs darkskin is what this thread's about.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Sure we can and we WERE until you showed up. Those of us who are ignoring your tangents still ARE.

Now if you're talking about albinism in the way that Iota is talking about, that's a different story. But you aren't. There are a few ways to explain how humans evolved to the form that we are and how we began to categorize ourselves without discussing genetics. That's a big part of the study of racial and ethnic inequality, for instance. But beyond the foundation of how we got here, there's an analysis of how we perceive these differences and the categorizations and value-ridden rankings that were humanly derived from them. The resulting categories and ranks (i.e. prejudices) of good vs bad and lightskin vs darkskin is what this thread's about.

We cannot discuss the high-level politics or the ramifications of our history until we are clear of the biological players and how come we developed--from a ecological standpoint at jump...

There was a reason why Africans--dark skinned, Asians--both dark and light skinned, and Caucasians in Europe appear the way they appear in human biological evolution.

Why did humans migrate so far from their food to look so differently? Then develop a how inaccurate ideology based on colorisms? What would be the biological basis for that other than hatred or fear?

Since we are in the AKA Ave on this subject...

[DSTCHAOS]

Your last post about migration is a basic understanding that is also applied when discussing the origins of cultures, ethnicities, etc. but where does that get us in reference to the discussion of intragroup prejudices? Just trying to understand where you're going with this.

~~~~~~~~~~~

I was talking to my hairdresser about a rollerset that Alicia Keyes had on a magazine cover. Her hair looked very nice and I was considering getting my rollerset looser like hers. My hairdresser said "oh yeah...and Alicia got that reeeeeal NICE hair texture." I'm glad she couldn't see my expression. I mean, there is HEALTHY hair. There's SHINY hair. There's a pretty hair color. But I've never associated "good" with finely textured hair. To me what she was saying was the same as the "good hair" thing--someone let me know if they would've interpreted that differently. Did she possibly mean the hair texture is easily managed?

I remember yeeears ago when one of my acquaintances told me "you got pretty lightskin...too bad your hair is all thick and kinky...you don't have good hurr." I was like " And God let me roam the earth still?! "

[Velocity_14]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I remember yeeears ago when one of my acquaintances told me "you got pretty lightskin...too bad your hair is all thick and kinky...you don't have good hurr." I was like " And God let me roam the earth still?! "

How about I used to hear (still a little today) "oooh you got some pretty hair to be darkskinned." Uuuuuuuuuum, so what is that supposed to mean??? Is my hair supposed to be bad because I'm dark; I'm not suppose to take care of my hair? Geeeeeesh!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Velocity_14

How about I used to hear (still a little today) "oooh you got some pretty hair to be darkskinned." Uuuuuuuuuum, so what is that supposed to mean??? Is my hair supposed to be bad because I'm dark; I'm not suppose to take care of my hair? Geeeeeesh!

Darker blacks "don't have enough white in them" to have anything other than Brillo pad hair.

Kenya Moore is a beautiful woman but I remember when she first came out and was celebrated for being chocolate and "having hair."

[Velocity_14]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Darker blacks "don't have enough white in them" to have anything other than Brillo pad hair.

LMAO!! Dang, why does it have to be a brillo pad though...lol.

[NappyBison]

I loathe the comparison of "good hair vs bad hair". As if a difference in skin tone didn't cause enough drama, we have to be judgemental about our beautiful hair too As long as you're blessed to have hair on your head it's good IMO.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Velocity_14

How about I used to hear (still a little today) "oooh you got some pretty hair to be darkskinned." Uuuuuuuuuum, so what is that supposed to mean??? Is my hair supposed to be bad because I'm dark; I'm not suppose to take care of my hair? Geeeeeesh!

yup I used to get that when I was younger. I also used to get "your hair is so long to be dark skinned" or the ever popular "you are so pretty to be dark skinned."

How about this, I once had a guy tell me that I was really pretty but that he didn't date dark skinned girls and he was dark. I guess he was afraid of ending up with dark skinned kids.

[Velocity_14]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

yup I used to get that when I was younger. I also used to get "your hair is so long to be dark skinned" or the ever popular "you are so pretty to be dark skinned."

How about this, I once had a guy tell me that I was really pretty but that he didn't date dark skinned girls and he was dark. I guess he was afraid of ending up with dark skinned kids.

The nerve of some people! When my hair was long people used to assume FIRST that it wasn't mine. I cut my hair in a short layered bob a couple of months ago but I am going to grow it back out because I miss my "bounce" and I found a good and affordable beautician. Now people want to ask me is my hair a wig...I mean dude...come on.....lol. Why can't it just be pretty because it's pretty...not pretty to be dark skinned.

Girl, I would have asked that man has he looked in the mirror lately or told him I didn't date dark skinned men either...just to see what he would say...lol. Peaple are really a trip!

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Velocity_14

The nerve of some people! When my hair was long people used to assume FIRST that it wasn't mine. I cut my hair in a short layered bob a couple of months ago but I am going to grow it back out because I miss my "bounce" and I found a good and affordable beautician. Now people want to ask me is my hair a wig...I mean dude...come on.....lol. Why can't it just be pretty because it's pretty...not pretty to be dark skinned.

Girl, I would have asked that man has he looked in the mirror lately or told him I didn't date dark skinned men either...just to see what he would say...lol. Peaple are really a trip!

Girl, that happened when I was in my teens and I was so used to being discriminated against (yes, by Black people both light and dark) that it didn't bother me anymore. For one thing, I knew that I was fine and my family and others always told me how beautiful I was but I admit that I did wrestle with self-esteem as a younger child...kids are cruel ya know. I was also always taught to be proud of being Black, we all were in my family and I have family members of all different shades. That is the only way this kind of thing will stop. We have to teach our children that "Black is Beautiful" no matter what shade it comes in, no matter what texture of hair and you have to teach your kids to be proud of their African American and African heritage while they're young. Knowledge of self can really make the difference and until we get that thru our heads, there will be more of the same.

[AKA_Monet]

[QUOTE=DSTCHAOS;1628358 Or someone else can enlighten us as to what your point is beyond the fact that these different shades of humanity came from....somewhere...and caused...noticeable differences that were responded to in particular ways. Your last post about migration is a basic understanding that is also applied when discussing the origins of cultures, ethnicities, etc. but where does that get us in reference to the discussion of intragroup prejudices? Just trying to understand where you're going with this.[/QUOTE]



1) Where do you think INTRA-racial prejudice started? What was the basis for its development, maintenance and institutionalized rationalization?

2) Do you think Light-complexion Pale Caucasians made Dark-skinned Africans? And when they did, did they choose to immediately hate darker hued humans to cause so much ignorance, racial hatred and institutionalization based on skin coloration? It just did not "magically" appear on the planet consecutive in all populations without electrical or transmission wiring... And given that the whole of humanity, genetically started in Africa?

3) The reality is, we need to know the biological basis of what humans developed cultural rationalizations. For example, how were Zombies made? It was recently determined how that process occurred and why it developed into the lore it has become. There is also the biological reasons for the effects at the Oracle at Delphi, The Holies of the Holies, the 10th Plague and the Balm of Gilead.

4) All scientific factors play a role in human development, evolution, behavior, agriculture, disease and astrological/meteorological phenomena. We have no discussion if we remain surface values, personal assaults and feelings to really educate people and possibly put an end to this ignorance.

And hey, don't believe what I say, do your own research and prove me wrong... I continually study that literature because it is a hobby of mine...

Who cares if someone is light/dark, polka-dotted or striped? The reality is a whole slew of people PERCEIVE discrepancies, distinctions and discriminations founded by SOMEBODY'S INANE EPISTEMOLOGY!

What I want to know is first, where did it come from, why does it exist and how it evolved to become that way?
I am here to help free people's minds...

[Little32]

@Iota and rhoyaltempest

I think that this point about language is important. "Good hair," "fine features," "fair-skinned," all of this language reinforces that light/white=good, dark/black=bad dichotomy. So the youth don't even have to necessarily encounter overt categorization to internalize these distinctions.

[IOTA-4A'88F]

Originally Posted by Little32

@Iota and rhoyaltempest

I think that this point about language is important. "Good hair," "fine features," "fair-skinned," all of this language reinforces that light/white=good, dark/black=bad dichotomy. So the youth don't even have to necessarily encounter overt categorization to internalize these distinctions.

Huh? **Looking over my comment to see if I said good, hair, fine, features, fair or skinned....** you know I can get confused easily

[Little32]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

Huh? **Looking over my comment to see if I said good, hair, fine, features, fair or skinned....** you know I can get confused easily

You didn't, you made the point that this stuff was ingrained in our language and I was agreeing with you.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

OK, I had alil' bit of time to read some of the comments, I can come at this from different angles...
1. Dealing with Albinism, yes, it can be a different topic, but it also can be the same topic. Not all have total lost of pigment, so their skin can mimic that of a White person or one of fairly complected. They not only deal with the stigma of being 'different' but also, for people of color, from their own race. "Oh you think you are better because your skin is "light bright and pretty much white." I can't count how many fights I had because of my mother's skin tone and the thoughts of; for lack of a better word.... IGNANT folk. I also was thought to be adopted, "oh that is nice of you to adopt that lil' black inner city boy" WTF. I am not gonna even go into how many "PRIVILEGED" conversations my mother had with White folks talking about Black people thinking she was White. I think that can classify as judging someone strictly on their skin tone.

**(SEPARATE THOUGHT) Yes, it was said before, red eyes in human albinos are rare, but not non-existing. My mother receives a bi-monthly Albino publication that had photos of red (and even purple) eyed human albinos. Red eyes are the cause of the underlying retinal blood vessels showing through where there is not enough pigment to cover them. Human eyes are larger (than animals) and can produce enough pigment for the eye to be opaque. **

My mother is #2 of four siblings. Two were albino. My sister and I are not, but I believe my children (whenever I have some) will be. My sister's kids showed traits of albinism.

2. One of the reasons, I think (and probably has been said) is the fact that, society plays so much of an emphasis on skin tone and color (not meaning race) in general. If it is an darker hue, it is denoted as a bad feeling, "It's pitch black outside", "I am feeling blue", "mellow yellow", "I am red hot", "Green with eny." It's only natural that we as a society bring that mentality into play. And it don't stay within the Black race. Hispanics, Asians, Indians, Jewish people have the same hangups about skin tone... some more than us. Including White people, they discriminate on skin tone (at times) worse than we do (IMHO-one of the reasons why they want a tan so bad- it denotes from a White person, a class of luxury and leisure).

Thank you! Very interesting take from primary source materials. And I will try to check out the website listed.

Just so you know, from a genetics professional perspective, your chances of producing a albino child are ~1/16 or 1/32. It is ONLY if you have children with a woman having similar family background as yours and like the "roll of the dice", your children may or may not be albino--probably not fully--i.e. red or purple eyes.

In ancient cultures, purple eyes were thought to be sent by "Heaven" and these were "Angels"...