Wilders' controversial "Fitna" now on web

[UGAalum94]

I guess what I'd like to see is reasoned response by moderate Muslims about how the scriptural quotes are also being "cherry-picked" by extremists and not just filmmakers when religious extremists encourage people to commit acts of violence or terror in the name of Islam.

But instead we get extremist interaction: some in the form of propaganda, some in the opposition to propaganda.

RACooper, the reference to Jack Chick might be a great analogy. I don't think I've ever seen a case in which the response to a Jack Chick cartoon, as offensive as they are to people who don't share his beliefs, was a suggestion to silence Jack Chick, particularly through the use of violence. As a Roman Catholic who finds his materials pretty, er, interesting, I react instead by wanting to explain how what Jack Chick said differed from actual RC teaching. As far as I know, this is the typical reaction.

Similarly, while propaganda presenting Christianity as a death cult might offend a lot of people, there'd be no global fear of widespread violence as a result of such a film and no UN officials would feel the need to make a statement about the film, I don't think. There is something fundamentally different about Islam in this regard.

So it seems to me the problem lies almost solely in the reaction to film and not the film itself.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I guess what I'd like to see is reasoned response by moderate Muslims about how the scriptural quotes are also being "cherry-picked" by extremists and not just filmmakers when religious extremists encourage people to commit acts of violence or terror in the name of Islam.

They do all the time - or at least on the TV programmes and new as well of in the newspapers that I watch or watch, if not in person when shooting the shit watching the game.

But instead we get extremist interaction: some in the form of propaganda, some in the opposition to propaganda.

RACooper, the reference to Jack Chick might be a great analogy. I don't think I've ever seen a case in which the response to a Jack Chick cartoon, as offensive as they are to people who don't share his beliefs, was a suggestion to silence Jack Chick, particularly through the use of violence.

Heh... he is silenced up here He is prohibited from visiting, and of course is prohibited from distributing his "literature" by law (Canadian Jewish Congress and the Roman Catholics took him to court), and furthermore those who distribute his literature are also in violation of the law as well (some one has to bring it to court though...). As for the violence bit... well some of the French Canadian Catholics and Jews advocated that, and were taken to court as well...

Similarly, while propaganda presenting Christianity as a death cult might offend a lot of people, there'd be no global fear of widespread violence as a result of such a film and no UN officials would feel the need to make a statement about the film, I don't think.

The UN regularly makes comments about China's "documentaries" on religions - of course China has a bigger stick than 'Islam' at the UN so not much comes of it...

There is something fundamentally different about Islam in this regard.

Not to me - I'm just as terrified of the fundamentalist Christian nutjobs as I am of the Islamic ones - hell I'm terrified of the fundamentalists/fanatics of any ideological stripe really... I guess you could say it plays a part in my "anti-Americanism" since the particular brand Christianity known roughly as American Protestantism disturbs me quite a bit (as does the still present and healthy anti-Catholicism there as well).

So it seems to me the problem lies almost solely in the reaction to film and not the film itself.

Partly yes - which is also my point, the reactions of everyone to the film is very interesting - reactions that for the most part I think Wilders was planning to provoke exactly with his latest provocative attack on Islam: condemnation and outrage from one quarter, and applause and promotion from another - basically playing to both the extremists and the bigots (like moe.ron alluded too).

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I guess what I'd like to see is reasoned response by moderate Muslims about how the scriptural quotes are also being "cherry-picked" by extremists and not just filmmakers when religious extremists encourage people to commit acts of violence or terror in the name of Islam.

But instead we get extremist interaction: some in the form of propaganda, some in the opposition to propaganda.

RACooper, the reference to Jack Chick might be a great analogy. I don't think I've ever seen a case in which the response to a Jack Chick cartoon, as offensive as they are to people who don't share his beliefs, was a suggestion to silence Jack Chick, particularly through the use of violence. As a Roman Catholic who finds his materials pretty, er, interesting, I react instead by wanting to explain how what Jack Chick said differed from actual RC teaching. As far as I know, this is the typical reaction.

Similarly, while propaganda presenting Christianity as a death cult might offend a lot of people, there'd be no global fear of widespread violence as a result of such a film and no UN officials would feel the need to make a statement about the film, I don't think. There is something fundamentally different about Islam in this regard.

So it seems to me the problem lies almost solely in the reaction to film and not the film itself.

Good posting; well thought out and written.

[jon1856]

Report: Non-Muslims Deserve to Be Punished
A report posted on Islam Watch, a site run by Muslims who oppose intolerant teachings and hatred for unbelievers, exposes a prominent Islamic cleric and lawyer who support extreme punishment for non-Muslims — including killing and rape.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344409,00.html

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Report: Non-Muslims Deserve to Be Punished
A report posted on Islam Watch, a site run by Muslims who oppose intolerant teachings and hatred for unbelievers, exposes a prominent Islamic cleric and lawyer who support extreme punishment for non-Muslims — including killing and rape.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344409,00.html

Oh look, it's Fox News.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Good posting; well thought out and written.

Thanks