dating a sweetheart and I'm NOT a greek

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I honestly feel like there are some people who do not get the full scope of it.

There are several different concepts of sweetheart.

They are not all the same to various chapters/groups/ (and obviously by some of the posters' responses) councils who have them. I want to make this point because my big is a past TKE chapter sweetheart and she is not a dating service, cookie baker, resident slut, or any of these other things. She is a nice girl who dated and continues to date the same chapter member, they knew her, they liked her, they respect her, they honored her. She is respectable.

Sometimes it's a matter of picking based on politics (trying to get in favor with XYZ group), sometimes it's something else. The reasons vary, but do NOT ever ASS -Ume that all sweethearts are a bad deal or concept.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Well, part of what I'm wondering is if maybe other chapters don't adhere to the high ideals you say your chapter did.

I can not address what other chapters may or may not do. I do know that within Sigma Chi, the Sweetheart Program is a time honor tradition.

Um... I don't think the issues I brought up (defense of sweethearts sounding like condemnations of them) had been brought up in this thread before. Like I said, I don't have any personal experience. Thus I must judge them on what other people tell them. The positive things you had to say in defense of sweethearts made them sound incredibly creepy to me. So I judge based on both positive and negative opinions that have been put forward.

I apologize for not having gone into more detail. However, if you want, you may do a search and find a few threads regarding sweethearts.

You can have a good time without a date. Why would he be so concerned if he looked like a loser? This one isn't really a big deal however. I just wouldn't let my boyfriend take another woman to a formal. But I guess if all parties involved are ok with it, then fine. I still don't see why the sweetheart needs to be involved unless the guy really is a loser.

Again, I apologize that I was not clear. The Sweetheart does not need to be involved at all. However, because she is a friend - and wants to - she will help her friend.

I notice you didn't address my comments about why having a sweetheart choose the date would make it less likely the guy would hook up with his date and not choose a woman "with bad intentions."

I noticed that too. I tried to edit my original post and got caught in a kind of loop that didn't let me edit my reply. So I will now.

You are right. It doesn't make it any less likely. People will hook up if they want to. However, he is more likely to get the desired results from the Sweetheart than say perhaps his brother simply because she might have a larger pool to work with. In other words, she may know more available women.

If it's not her job why does everyone keep bringing it up as something a sweetheart does?

It is not her "job". Or even her responsibility. It is something that she elects to do on her own because she is friends with the person who is asking her for help. In this case, it is a member of the fraternity.

My friends like to set one another up in college as well. But they weren't obligated to do so.

As it should be. The Sweetheart is a FRIEND. She is under no obligation to set up anyone - ever!

YES, I'm sure, TSteven. Please have respect enough for my knowledge of these issues. You're talking to someone who was a chapter president and almost a consultant for her sorority. I knew people in pretty much every fraternity, including Sigma Chi, and I never once heard of any fraternity EVER having a sweetheart. I'm guessing this is partially because W&L only went co-ed in 1985 and they had no tradition of having sweethearts previous to that. I have been to EVERY fraternity at W&L in my day. I know people in all fifteen of them (some of them are gone now though). W&L is a small school. Everyone knows everyone. Heck, I know half the guys in my class's "pledge names" (lame). W&L has 1700 students. They are almost all Greek. It is like a huge, gossipy, high school. Everyone knows everything. I would certainly know if there were formalized sweethearts. The closest anything ever came to that is that the fraternities and sororities all nominate women for Homecoming. But they weren't "sweethearts."

UGH. Please don't suggest I don't know what happens at my own college. I bet a lot of things about W&L and the way W&L men treat women would surprise YOU. It is not happy-happy-fraternity-land.

Point taken. While they may not have had it when you were there, they might now. And the election of a chapter Sweetheart may not always be well publicized regardless of the campus. Besides, even if the Zeta Chapter (W&L) of Sigma Chi does not have a chapter Sweetheart, they do have an International Sweetheart.

If you are interested in learning more, and happen to know any fraternity men at Texas, please ask them if they have a chapter Sweetheart. Those who do might be able to give you a better understanding of what they actually do. And not something based on rumor on innuendo.

I've been around on GC a long time and have read a LOT about sweethearts and am only now offering my true opinion about it. I'm glad you like Sigma Chi's program. I'm sure it was founded with high ideals. At the same time, I'm not foolish enough to think that most fraternity chapters strictly follow the ideals of the program. In fact, I would take things I read on GC as probably more indicative of how the program works than things I read on the national website. I must judge on this basis since I don't have any personal experience.

If you feel a need to judge based on what GC posters have said, then so be it. I hope that if you are truly interested in this, you will research it further and not limit your knowledge to what people post here.

Pi Phi banned the practice of sweethearts ("Arrowmen") in our policies & position statements and I'm certainly glad we did. I'm glad you like your org's policies but to me they seem ridiculous.

I have know a few men who held the honor of being an Arrowmen. All are (and were) upstanding individuals.

And.... the link you posted doesn't seem to be working.

I will try it again. If it still does not work, you might want to try searching "Sigma Chi Sweetheart Program" Once you get to the website, there are direct links to the program.

Sweetheart Program

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Point taken. While they may not have had it when you were there, they might now. And the election of a chapter Sweetheart may not always be well publicized regardless of the campus. Besides, even if the Zeta Chapter (W&L) of Sigma Chi does not have a chapter Sweetheart, they do have an International Sweetheart.

Well, I only graduated in 2005, so if they have them now, it would be a really recent development. Trust me, EVERYTHING is well-publicized at W&L. Please don't pretend to understand my campus. For example, fraternities' nomination of homecoming candidates was a HUGE deal that all sorority women knew ALL about. I could even tell you which fraternities elected women how (based on people who hung out there, which woman had been dating a senior the longest, which woman they thought was a "sure thing" to win Homecoming even if she didn't hang out there, etc.). A lot of the traditional fraternity & women things weren't done at W&L--for example lavaliering. Guys didn't do that for whatever reason. Again I think it has to do with coeducation coming so late.

If you are interested in learning more, and happen to know any fraternity men at Texas, please ask them if they have a chapter Sweetheart. Those who do might be able to give you a better understanding of what they actually do. And not something based on rumor on innuendo.

This is a good suggestion. I do know quite a few fraternity men at Texas, but since my connections with them are through being their instructor, it's actually not appropriate for me to ask them such questions. It violates TA liability policy.

If you feel a need to judge based on what GC posters have said, then so be it. I hope that if you are truly interested in this, you will research it further and not limit your knowledge to what people post here.

I am truly interested in this. I HAVE read a lot of threads about this. Remember that I have been here since 2002 and have been reading threads for many years. You don't know what I have and haven't read. It's actually true that at one time I thought having sweethearts seemed cool and thought W&L fraternities should start doing it. On reading more (including from pro-sweetheart people), I began to think it was a VERY bad idea and came to really appreciate Pi Phi's policy banning sweethearts. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm uninformed. I readily admit I don't have direct experience with sweethearts. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it. I don't have direct experience with taking heroin either, but I can have an opinion on it.

[quoteI have know a few men who held the honor of being an Arrowmen. All are (and were) upstanding individuals.[/quote]

I sure hope this isn't recently.

I will try it again. If it still does not work, you might want to try searching "Sigma Chi Sweetheart Program" Once you get to the website, there are direct links to the program.

Sweetheart Program

The link works now. Thanks. But again, official policy does not equal practice.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Well, I only graduated in 2005, so if they have them now, it would be a really recent development. Trust me, EVERYTHING is well-publicized at W&L. Please don't pretend to understand my campus. For example, fraternities' nomination of homecoming candidates was a HUGE deal that all sorority women knew ALL about. I could even tell you which fraternities elected women how (based on people who hung out there, which woman had been dating a senior the longest, which woman they thought was a "sure thing" to win Homecoming even if she didn't hang out there, etc.). A lot of the traditional fraternity & women things weren't done at W&L--for example lavaliering. Guys didn't do that for whatever reason. Again I think it has to do with coeducation coming so late.

I apologize if I gave the impression that I pretended to understand your campus. I do not. On the same hand, and not that you have necessarily done so, please do not pretend to understand my fraternity.

This is a good suggestion. I do know quite a few fraternity men at Texas, but since my connections with them are through being their instructor, it's actually not appropriate for me to ask them such questions. It violates TA liability policy.

You need to do what you need to do. But when I was in graduate school (and granted, I was not a teachers assistant) I was able to talk with other graduate students as well as undergrad students. Some were not ever in my department. I would hope that at a school like Texas you might be able to find at least one person you could speak with and not violate your TA liability policy.

I am truly interested in this. I HAVE read a lot of threads about this. Remember that I have been here since 2002 and have been reading threads for many years. You don't know what I have and haven't read. It's actually true that at one time I thought having sweethearts seemed cool and thought W&L fraternities should start doing it. On reading more (including from pro-sweetheart people), I began to think it was a VERY bad idea and came to really appreciate Pi Phi's policy banning sweethearts. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm uninformed. I readily admit I don't have direct experience with sweethearts. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it. I don't have direct experience with taking heroin either, but I can have an opinion on it.

Of course you may have an opinion. Yet because your sorority currently - or you personally - do not like the idea of *fraternity* sweethearts, or have a realistic concept of what they do, does not mean that other sororities or fraternities are not initialed to have one.

I sure hope this [Arrowmen] isn't recently.

Well, yes. The ones I met recently held the honor years back.

The link works now. Thanks. But again, official policy does not equal practice.

You may be right. However, as you pointed out, you are not familiar with the concept of chapter sweethearts. So why say something inflammatory. Hearsay does not make it reality either.

And please, with respect to Sigma Chi Fraternity, if you ever find anything questionable regarding one of our chapter Sweethearts, please send me a PM with the specific details.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by TSteven

You need to do what you need to do. But when I was in graduate school (and granted, I was not a teachers assistant) I was able to talk with other graduate students as well as undergrad students. Some were not ever in my department. I would hope that at a school like Texas you might be able to find at least one person you could speak with and not violate your TA liability policy.

Not really. We can't really inquire into people's personal lives at all if we're their instructor. It's extremely inappropriate. Being a graduate instructor at a huge university, there are a ton of policies that would never come up if you were not an instructor. If they bring it up, certainly, but I don't know why they ever would. A Phi Psi in my class brought up that he was a Phi Psi recently and we discussed that. But otherwise I'm very limited in discussing such matters. And basically no one in my program was Greek except a few women. I can't think of any fraternity guys. Well two. But they both graduated.

Of course you may have an opinion. Yet because your sorority currently - or you personally - do not like the idea of *fraternity* sweethearts, or have a realistic concept of what they do, does not mean that other sororities or fraternities are not initialed to have one.

They're entitled to, certainly. I agree there. They can have them. I'm not so sure they should have them.

You may be right. However, as you pointed out, you are not familiar with the concept of chapter sweethearts. So why say something inflammatory. Hearsay does not make it reality either.

I'm only going off what you and others have told me on GC. Are you a dishonest source?

I don't really think anything I've said is inflammatory. Oh well. My participation in this thread is obviously upsetting you so I'll bow out now. I just don't see why I'm entitled to the opinion that sweethearts are a very bizarre institution, just as you are entitled to your opinion that they are an awesome one. Even if I haven't seen them firsthand--which again, I readily admit--doesn't mean I haven't read about them or am not educated about them. And it doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion about them, whether or not you like it.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

I honestly feel like there are some people who do not get the full scope of it.

There are several different concepts of sweetheart.

They are not all the same to various chapters/groups/ (and obviously by some of the posters' responses) councils who have them. I want to make this point because my big is a past TKE chapter sweetheart and she is not a dating service, cookie baker, resident slut, or any of these other things. She is a nice girl who dated and continues to date the same chapter member, they knew her, they liked her, they respect her, they honored her. She is respectable.

Sometimes it's a matter of picking based on politics (trying to get in favor with XYZ group), sometimes it's something else. The reasons vary, but do NOT ever ASS -Ume that all sweethearts are a bad deal or concept.

Ours used to always be a brothers girlfriend until recently, now its more of a tool to get good relations with a certain sorority.

[SWTXBelle]

The International Sweetheart of Sigma Chi is an amazing program. The women who become International Sweetheart are beautiful, intelligent, dedicated young ladies.

However, my experience with an individual chapter was less than amazing. I was MARRIED to the president, and given an award by the Grand Consul for my dedication and work, but was told I couldn't be sweetheart because I didn't sleep with the brothers. Hey, I was sleeping with one of them!

[BabyPiNK_FL]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

Ours used to always be a brothers girlfriend until recently, now its more of a tool to get good relations with a certain sorority.

Another example that I mentioned. Here's one more: this year, that same chapter I referenced earlier picked a sorority woman who wasn't dating a brother. She brought her gdi date to the formal (no comment). Allegedly, it was based on politics of some older brothers. That was their choice for this year based on their own need/decision.

Basically my point is that there are various reasons a chapter would nominate and pick a sweetheart for. And even those can vary by year or by person nominated/chosen. Not all sweethearts have that negative stereotypes and people should stop lumping them together just as they would not want outsiders to judge all greeks the same.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

Basically my point is that there are various reasons a chapter would nominate and pick a sweetheart for. And even those can vary by year or by person nominated/chosen. Not all sweethearts have that negative stereotypes and people should stop lumping them together just as they would not want outsiders to judge all greeks the same.

Actually, I thought my comments were more of a critique of the fraternity members who select the sweetheart than the sweetheart herself.

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

Another example that I mentioned. Here's one more: this year, that same chapter I referenced earlier picked a sorority woman who wasn't dating a brother. She brought her gdi date to the formal (no comment). Allegedly, it was based on politics of some older brothers. That was their choice for this year based on their own need/decision.

Basically my point is that there are various reasons a chapter would nominate and pick a sweetheart for. And even those can vary by year or by person nominated/chosen. Not all sweethearts have that negative stereotypes and people should stop lumping them together just as they would not want outsiders to judge all greeks the same.

Hey I PM'ed you
I have some questions about that..