Obama tackles race anger in major speech

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

So..you accept and understand...but what are you doing about it?

All I can do it live it- in my hiring decisions and in who I do business with.

I learned very early in life that results matter. And I hire and promote people based on results, period. I am very comfortable stating that and standing by it.

In a broader sense, it is harder because there is so much vitriol out there to contend with when one goes public.

When I meet someone, they have the same "chance" with me as everyone else in the context of the developing relationship- be it personal or professional.

But as much as I despise the "Bob Jones" mentality, I also despise the "Reverend Wright" mentality because I see them as one in the same.

Yet it is hard to be up front about that since you never know if someone will be the same or let personal biases influence their relative views. And maybe to an extent I have my own biases I don't even recognize.

I have worked with people who told me to my face they hate blacks, Mexicans, Asians etc. But I have also worked with minorities who I have seen use their racial status and legal favor of their status to force themselves into being treated specially beyond what they deserved.

And this is where people get defensive and scared. And whether you get defensive or scared depends on what your views are, the views of the other person and where the power is in that relationship (ie who works for who etc.)

On a national scale- the answer is that the media needs to stop promoting racial tension to achieve TV ratings. There is a fine line between exposing hidden injustice and talking up non-issues, but I think that line has been crossed.

How you do that is hard to say. The media does this to make money- and in a capitalist society, any society really, the goal is to make a good living for one's self.

So all you can do is your part to keep your little piece of the earth as it should be.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

All I can do it live it- in my hiring decisions and in who I do business with.

I learned very early in life that results matter. And I hire and promote people based on results, period. I am very comfortable stating that and standing by it.

In a broader sense, it is harder because there is so much vitriol out there to contend with when one goes public.

When I meet someone, they have the same "chance" with me as everyone else in the context of the developing relationship- be it personal or professional.

But as much as I despise the "Bob Jones" mentality, I also despise the "Reverend Wright" mentality because I see them as one in the same.

Yet it is hard to be up front about that since you never know if someone will be the same or let personal biases influence their relative views. And maybe to an extent I have my own biases I don't even recognize.

I have worked with people who told me to my face they hate blacks, Mexicans, Asians etc. But I have also worked with minorities who I have seen use their racial status and legal favor of their status to force themselves into being treated specially beyond what they deserved.

And this is where people get defensive and scared. And whether you get defensive or scared depends on what your views are, the views of the other person and where the power is in that relationship (ie who works for who etc.)

On a national scale- the answer is that the media needs to stop promoting racial tension to achieve TV ratings. There is a fine line between exposing hidden injustice and talking up non-issues, but I think that line has been crossed.

How you do that is hard to say. The media does this to make money- and in a capitalist society, any society really, the goal is to make a good living for one's self.

So all you can do is your part to keep your little piece of the earth as it should be.

that reminds me....how often this year as opposed to other election years has it been emphasized as to the breakdown of what race is voting for who?

That sickens me...and it insults my intelligence....

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

that reminds me....how often this year as opposed to other election years has it been emphasized as to the breakdown of what race is voting for who?

That sickens me...and it insults my intelligence....

It is a new thing in the general media with this election. Ann Coulter likes to bring up race and voting blocks all the time, but in the past this has not been a staple of general media reporting, or even among many advocates/pundits.

I share your sense of being sick and feeling my intelligence has been insulted.

At the end of the day, this is how I see the Obama situation with regards to Reverend Wright,

1. Obama made a strategic decision early in the race to focus on a very high level approach to campaigning. This avoided specifics and a degree of substance, but also kept him free to avoid getting mired in details over specific comments that in the modern media can come back to bite you. A good example is McCain and the 100 years in Iraq comment.

2. This strategy served him very well early on- and still is really. However, he came into this situation with Wright as the candidate a lot of people did not really have a good handle on. This is in part due to the fact that he deliberately took a very high level message approach in his speeches, and also due to the fact the other 2 major candidates have very long and well known public records.

3. At a certain point, he made it very clear that his church and his pastor were a major force in his life.

4. Then the Wright stuff comes out- a perfect media story full of hate and sensationalism. And then a LOT of people who don't personally identify with Obama or understand where he is coming from are going to automatically, and unfairly, associate him negatively with Rev. Wright.

I think that is the bottom line here. Race pervades this in a sense, but it is not the fundamental issue. The media making it an issue- and bringing out pundits who defend Wright in part- just makes it harder on Obama.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

It is a new thing in the general media with this election. Ann Coulter likes to bring up race and voting blocks all the time, but in the past this has not been a staple of general media reporting, or even among many advocates/pundits.

I share your sense of being sick and feeling my intelligence has been insulted.

At the end of the day, this is how I see the Obama situation with regards to Reverend Wright,

1. Obama made a strategic decision early in the race to focus on a very high level approach to campaigning. This avoided specifics and a degree of substance, but also kept him free to avoid getting mired in details over specific comments that in the modern media can come back to bite you. A good example is McCain and the 100 years in Iraq comment.

2. This strategy served him very well early on- and still is really. However, he came into this situation with Wright as the candidate a lot of people did not really have a good handle on. This is in part due to the fact that he deliberately took a very high level message approach in his speeches, and also due to the fact the other 2 major candidates have very long and well known public records.

3. At a certain point, he made it very clear that his church and his pastor were a major force in his life.

4. Then the Wright stuff comes out- a perfect media story full of hate and sensationalism. And then a LOT of people who don't personally identify with Obama or understand where he is coming from are going to automatically, and unfairly, associate him negatively with Rev. Wright.

I think that is the bottom line here. Race pervades this in a sense, but it is not the fundamental issue. The media making it an issue- and bringing out pundits who defend Wright in part- just makes it harder on Obama.

This is what makes the media money...not boring old issues but who is sleeping wth wh, who is a hater and so forth...like him or not, Obama says what he has to say and moves on. It's not stuff that has to linger on and on...I know what he would probably like just like a lot of us would like....rather than concentrate on what he did in Jakarta or who he fellowshipped with in Chicago or at what time he took a dump, ASK HIM about what he plans to do...

I get tired of people who keep claiming well they don't know what Obama is about...stop asking the wrong questions...stop wasting air time and money going on witch hunts...simply ask him what is his platform and we won't need a 40 minute speech addressing some BS that supposedly the US has moved past.

[shinerbock]

This whole dispute is partisan.

If you think the speech was less than brilliant and didn't do an adequate job explaining away his connections to a fearmonger, then you're an idiot conservative.

If you're falling all over yourself about how this is the most revolutionary speech every, you're a braindead and lovestruck liberal.

The fact is, it was fairly interesting and somewhat daring. It doesn't get the same acclaim (perhaps receiving negative backlash instead) if a white politician gives it, but that doesn't mean it didn't contain some valuable substance.

That said, I could care less what Obama says about race. I'm scared of what he'd do to the country, and lets not forget, this is about political posturing, not about some altruistic move to heal a racial divide (except insofar as that brings more delegates). I don't think he's evil, and I don't think he's racist. I simply disagree with the idea that he is good for America, and some liberals (not necessarily on this board) don't understand that. There seems to be a mindset that if just fixes this one thing, we'll all come around. Not quite.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

This whole dispute is partisan.

That said, I could care less what Obama says about race. I'm scared of what he'd do to the country, and lets not forget, this is about political posturing, not about some altruistic move to heal a racial divide (except insofar as that brings more delegates). I don't think he's evil, and I don't think he's racist. I simply disagree with the idea that he is good for America, and some liberals (not necessarily on this board) don't understand that. There seems to be a mindset that if just fixes this one thing, we'll all come around. Not quite.

I am unclear what you mean by partisan. I only saw the dems responding to it. The repubs could care less... If that isn't what you mean, help me understand?

As far as what Obama will do to the country--that I am not scared of, from my perspective it is already bad and I can only go up from this lowly point I reside now... Aside from the fact will ANYTHING get done? Really?

And I agree with you, this is ALL about politics and posturing. He is NOT going to fix a racial divide created long before there was an America, but I also am not cynical to think this will NEVER be good for America. Someday we have to heal. When will that be? After a mushroom cloud and 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit? Just asking?

[AKA_Monet]

Interesting that Huckabee say this...

On MSNBC

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I am unclear what you mean by partisan. I only saw the dems responding to it. The repubs could care less... If that isn't what you mean, help me understand?

As far as what Obama will do to the country--that I am not scared of, from my perspective it is already bad and I can only go up from this lowly point I reside now... Aside from the fact will ANYTHING get done? Really?

And I agree with you, this is ALL about politics and posturing. He is NOT going to fix a racial divide created long before there was an America, but I also am not cynical to think this will NEVER be good for America. Someday we have to heal. When will that be? After a mushroom cloud and 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit? Just asking?

AKA, I meant partisan in that people are taking sides on here based on their political ideology. Perhaps not the best wording, but I hope that clarifies. I think people on here who are die hard GOPers won't have anything good to say about it, while people on the left see no fault in Barack. Sure, this is a generalization, but that is often the tone on this site.

I don't think things can only go up from here. I think we can abandon Iraq and leave it to fester. Combine that with a President I think would be weak on terror, and we have a disaster. Also, you could have a weakened form of capitalism in the United States, another decade preaching reliance on the government, and judges appointed which agree with those views.

I hope we do heal. I think Obama probably wants that, but this speech doesn't happen unless the people in his life are exposed through conservative media outlets. I'm sure the speech is at least somewhat authentic, I just don't think his motives are to be applauded as though this came from nowhere. This is a classic situation of a politician (yes, Obama is one) trying to turn something bad into something more palatable.

[scbelle]

I so wanted to get in on this thread yesterday, but my dumb computer was acting up. Anyway, since then, I've been able to give a lot of thought to the matter, and this is what I've come up with so far:

1) The speech was brave and courageous, and things that needed to be said were said in regard to race and the path this country should take to heal old wounds.

2) In all honesty, Wright's comments didn't get under my skin. They shocked me, of course. They angered me for a flicker, but then I realized that I didn't have the full context of what his message was that day. I went to seminary and loved the study of liberation theology and social justice... I know that themes of both are frequently interwoven into messages into black churches. His message could have been along those lines, but the incendiary comments are the "sound bytes" we're stuck with.

3) I applaud Obama for not completely breaking ties with his pastor. What is that saying... oh yes, Hate the sin, but love the sinner. Obama is living his faith. It would be so easy and convenient for him to condemn the man, just as many others have done, but, even with the possibility of political suicide, Obama is remaining loyal to a man who has done so much for him. Back in the day (biblical day, that is), tax collectors were the Jeremiah Wrights of the day. They were despised and reviled because they were crooked and just the worst of human scum. Yet I remember a story of a great man who decided to eat with one. He turned the public spectrum on its head. I don't want to seem like I'm making Obama the savior or anything, but I think that part of his charm in the media is that the media has never really seen a candidate like Obama, who, in most personal cases in his life, has stood up to do the right thing.

[shinerbock]

SC, I understand what you're saying about "loving the sinner." However, if I ever use that phrase with any consistency for my pastor, I don't think I'll be staying in that church. Clergymen are fallible like all of us, but I'm not interested in seeking guidance and spiritual counsel from people who don't even strive to meet the standards I set for my own life.