Tiers in The SEC

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

EW, I thought it strange that you had such a large seperation between Florida- and Texas and Georgia-since these states have been suffering from similar problems.
Ex. Fort Lauderdale, Houston/Dallas, Atlanta
I've never been to UT, but I assumed UF was very similar.

I know where your coming from, but at least my experience from Texas (I was born there), is that there Texas is not AS diluted as Georgia is, and Georgia isn't AS diluted as Florida is.

Texas still has excellent breeding grounds for fraternity men such as Highland Park, Tyler, and parts of Houston. It suffers from an exceedingly high absurdly GDI population...but at 50,000 people there's plenty to choose from. Part of the reason I chose them so high is because there are two Texas fraternities (SAE and Fiji) which would certainly be top tier anywhere. I suspect (and not knowing about the lower levels) that after them, Sig Ep and a few others it drops off quite a bit.

Georgia, while suffering from Atlanta and the surrounding areas, still pulls people from Mobile, Jackson, and apparently Highland Park as well (they call it the Stafford effect...after he went there, alot of people from HP went there)

UF doesn't pull enough people from Alabama, Mississippi or Georgia to make this. It seems that alot of people from the panhandle choose to go to those schools instead of going south. Just my experience, could be wrong again.

I rank my own University low because it's being increasingly flooded with the Plano area of north Dallas and Northwest Arkansas. The Delta part of Arkansas is slowly dying out as people move away. We may sink further it seems.

SthrnZeta, thanks for posting some rules, but it's hardly turned into a pissing match and we haven't ranked fraternities.

[ajuhdg]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I rank my own University low because it's being increasingly flooded with the Plano area of north Dallas and Northwest Arkansas. The Delta part of Arkansas is slowly dying out as people move away. We may sink further it seems.

What's wrong with people from Plano!?

Flame away here, but why is it so wrong for us to talk about 'Tiers'? They do exist, and it's a part of greek life whether or not we agree with the rankings or basis fro criteria. There was a post many moons ago about the tiers actually coming out in Texas Monthly magazine. I read the article recently describing the layout of the system at Cornell. I know we don't always get the most intelligent PNM's around here, but if we preface it with all the NPC spirit 'go in with an open-mind'. I guess on the one side I see how it can be hurtful to shallow people who take everything they read on line as the gospel. But, at the other side, we are here to discuss everything related to greek life. I just don't understand why 'Tiering' is like the uncle in prison, the one we all know about, but nobody ever brings up at the family reunion.

It just doesn't make sense to me that people are verbally attacked and chased off the forums for having an opinon about anything from Reality shows to alumnae initiation, but we can't talk about something like this. Why do we encourage 'users' of this site to have thick skin? I've been to the 'other' sites to read what people's opinions of DG are at other schools, and while it sucks to read that they are the 'crack whores' at one school and 'the fatties' at another, it doesn't hurt my own experience and opinion of what an awesome organization I belong to. (And, I KNOW that others aren't able to figure it out for themselves.)

Just something I was thinking about...

[banditone]

DG are hotties at my school

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

Flame away here, but why is it so wrong for us to talk about 'Tiers'?

Once you post on GC "XYZ is the sorority no one wants to join" it's on the internet forever. People can keep pullling that up when they google. There's a post on here about sororities at a competitive school that talks about the most unpopular house on campus from several years ago. Even though the chapter has turned around and is doing much better - people can still pull that up and still read that "XYZ is the weakest house at Google U."

Not only that - you have no idea who is writing what. The absurdity of this has been pointed out (i.e. me talking about how awesome the AXOs at my school were when we have no AXOs).

[banditone]

What's funny is that no one ever says "blah blah fraternity, the one no one wants to join". Or the like.

[skylark]

Originally Posted by banditone

What's funny is that no one ever says "blah blah fraternity, the one no one wants to join". Or the like.

I think that is because of the perceived notion that through formal recruitment (for sororities) no woman would choose the smallest or least popular sorority... and because of the secrecy over the process and people's rankings, we rarely have enough info to dispel that myth. In contrast, with the guys often not having a coordinated system of recruitment, fewer people doubt that the people who joined XYZ fraternity wanted to be there (rather than just ending up there after an elaborate bid matching system).

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by banditone

What's funny is that no one ever says "blah blah fraternity, the one no one wants to join". Or the like.

I think this is a reflection in the way that sororities do recruitment. A fraternity can target the guys they want and only take those guys without a ton of pressure for not taking 60 of them. And the group overall can be smaller as long as they are financially healthy and it's no big deal.

With sororities, you have to take quota and be at total or it reflects poorly on the group.

ETA: I see Skylark has already said this, but I replied before I read all the way through.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I don't think I can give W&L such an easy pass.

The good:
-Almost everyone who goes there comes from a) money, or b) a decent family. Otherwise, why would you even look there?
-The school has many well-to-do southerners, and because it's so small, others will conform in order to "fit in". Just like high school.
-They're ALL conservatives!

I've made more than one visit to the school, and almost everyone I met was obsessed with The Real World, rap music, and pot smoking. But they all wore polo and pearls, so it was OK?
I don't think schools like W&L can be compared to schools 35 times their size.

Interesting. Thanks for your candid response. I actually think your list of "the good" is somewhat inaccurate. Except, not the second one. A good majority (60-70%?) are indeed from money or a decent family (using the sense of the terms that I know you mean. But there are a LOT who are not. At the same time, as you mention most of those who are not conform to the model of those who are.

As for the conservative thing, I think you underestimate the number of liberals at W&L. There are a significant number. Also, a lot of the supposed conservative students are really moderates who just lean a bit conservative. But, again, most of them dress & look like conservatives.

As for the Real World, rap music, and pot-smoking.... LOL. It definitely depends on where you hang out. I don't remember anyone watching the Real World! Rap music is a weird thing definitely, because even the guys in the very "top" groups or whatever definitely listened to rap music. Not sure why that was. Everyone at W&L just seemed to like rap music. I like it too. Everyone seemed to like jam music too (which I can't stand and think is just.... ugh, trashy and awful). Pot-smoking... there were definitely fraternities that had strong reputations for that. It was pretty common I guess, but not as common as rap music. It's another thing I can't stand and think is just 100% trashy (no matter what class you are).

The other big thing about W&L was open parties, so all members of all groups could show up at every other house's parties. Or non-Greeks, for that matter. Which on one level is nice and on the other level created a LOT of security problems.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Does Arkansas get much draw from the Missouri/Oklahoma/Kansas area?

Yes, unfortunately.

However, since they're from those areas they tend not to join fraternities. Oklahoma area does sometimes because there are good private schools around Tulsa.

The Delta is losing population every day and even worse it's a 4 hour drive from campus...in that same area you could ALMOST get to Dallas, definitely Tulsa and definitely Kansas, Southwestern Missouri. We're seeing more and more Joplin/Springfield/Branson kids now a days.

Despite the distance we seem to be pulling in some good Houston and Highland Park kids which is making up for the losses in the Delta.

[UTLonghorn2012]

Arkansas gets a lot of private school/Highland Park kids from Dallas who can't get in everywhere else.

About 10 percent of my 250 member all-guys class will be Hogs next year, and I expect a lot of them to pledge.

I expect that besides the private school crowds from Tulsa and Dallas and Memphis, most of U of A's fraternity community is coming from the Little Rock old money.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

I expect that besides the private school crowds from Tulsa and Dallas and Memphis, most of U of A's fraternity community is coming from the Little Rock old money.

In terms of quality, it comes from the private schools in Dallas, Memphis and Little Rock aaaand the Delta. Which has no private schools, but has some old money (and some no money at all) schools like DeWitt, Stuttgart, Gillette, some Pine Bluff and mostly towns that are barely on the map.


But you're correct about the private schools in Little Rock. Little Rock Catholic, Episcopal, and Central tend to bring out the most of 'em.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by UTLonghorn2012

Arkansas gets a lot of private school/Highland Park kids from Dallas who can't get in everywhere else.

About 10 percent of my 250 member all-guys class will be Hogs next year, and I expect a lot of them to pledge.

I expect that besides the private school crowds from Tulsa and Dallas and Memphis, most of U of A's fraternity community is coming from the Little Rock old money.

Welcome to UT!

Can I ask y'all a question? How do guys from the SEC schools honestly view W&L? I saw one of you included it as in-between first and second tier. I'm very curious to see what you have to say.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Welcome to UT!

Can I ask y'all a question? How do guys from the SEC schools honestly view W&L? I saw one of you included it as in-between first and second tier. I'm very curious to see what you have to say.

In my opinion....very, very close to 1st tier...if not there.

What a great school Greek wise (and academically, of course) I consider it similar to University of the South or Hampden-Sydney. The greek system's great, but since it's a small, private school the GDI's could be Greek at most schools.

[shinerbock]

Having Auburn in the same tier as LSU and UGA is laughable. So is having SC in the top tier.

I'd say Bama, Ole Miss and Texas at the top. Followed by an intermediate group of like Auburn and W&L, then probably UGA, Clemson, LSU, etc.

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Having Auburn in the same tier as LSU and UGA is laughable. So is having SC in the top tier.

I'd say Bama, Ole Miss and Texas at the top. Followed by an intermediate group of like Auburn and W&L, then probably UGA, Clemson, LSU, etc.

why is SC such a joke? i dont think its higher then UGA, but i think its on level with LSU or Auburn. have u been here or are u talking out of your ass based on the bias of a lack of football tradition?