Tiers in The SEC

[UGAalum94]

When you all are doing the overall system rankings, can I ask what you are considering?

The huge split between Ole Miss and Mississippi State seems strange to me on some level.

[banditone]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

When you all are doing the overall system rankings, can I ask what you are considering?

The huge split between Ole Miss and Mississippi State seems strange to me on some level.

One more time:

Membership Size (membership at a given time).
Alumni Size.
Physical Plant (house and structures).
Alumni Support (to the house).
Alumni Support (to the University).
War Chest (house money for events).
Campus Involvement / Leadership roles.
What Sororities they interact with on average.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by banditone

One more time:

Membership Size (membership at a given time).
Alumni Size.
Physical Plant (house and structures).
Alumni Support (to the house).
Alumni Support (to the University).
War Chest (house money for events).
Campus Involvement / Leadership roles.
What Sororities they interact with on average.

Was this posted before? Where?

But by those standards, is there that huge a difference between Ole Miss and State, particularly when you look at strong groups on both campuses?

I know Ole Miss has a strong reputation for being old south and exclusive, but I'm not sure the reality of who is really going there matches up with outside expectation.

State is a little redneck to be sure, but if you look at kind of a who's who for Mississippi, State grads are pretty well represented.

Reputation definitely counts for something, and on that alone I understand why Ole Miss is higher, but one of the top two or three while State is at the bottom seems odd if you're looking at anything objective, particularly when Auburn is solidly in the middle.

ETA: I've had relatives go to State and I can say that being Greek seemed far more important to being influential on campus at State than it did at Georgia.

[gtdxeric]

Originally Posted by banditone

Physical Plant (house and structures).
Campus Involvement / Leadership roles.
What Sororities they interact with on average.

The other criteria you mentioned can be objectively measured. If your house has a $100,000 social budget, there's no arguing that it's more (and thereby better) than the one next door or across the state that has a $50K budget.

These, however, come down to opinion. Is it better to have a huge new house, like several of the FSU houses, or a classic, but smaller house, like Fiji at Texas? How much better or worse? What campus leadership roles actually "mean something"? Student government president is usually the consensus most prestigious position on a campus, but the level of respect definitely varies from campus to campus. This kind of stuff is why it's hard to directly compare/rank fraternities across the South, much less across the nation, and we haven't even gotten into the intangibles, like how many brothers are douchebags.

What I'm saying is, you can rank houses, but I'd say that only maybe half of the ranking can be made objectively. The other half is up to the individual.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by gtdxeric

The other criteria you mentioned can be objectively measured. If your house has a $100,000 social budget, there's no arguing that it's more (and thereby better) than the one next door or across the state that has a $50K budget.

These, however, come down to opinion. Is it better to have a huge new house, like several of the FSU houses, or a classic, but smaller house, like Fiji at Texas? How much better or worse? What campus leadership roles actually "mean something"? Student government president is usually the consensus most prestigious position on a campus, but the level of respect definitely varies from campus to campus. This kind of stuff is why it's hard to directly compare/rank fraternities across the South, much less across the nation, and we haven't even gotten into the intangibles, like how many brothers are douchebags.

What I'm saying is, you can rank houses, but I'd say that only maybe half of the ranking can be made objectively. The other half is up to the individual.

Excellent points!

[banditone]

Originally Posted by gtdxeric

The other criteria you mentioned can be objectively measured. If your house has a $100,000 social budget, there's no arguing that it's more (and thereby better) than the one next door or across the state that has a $50K budget.

These, however, come down to opinion. Is it better to have a huge new house, like several of the FSU houses, or a classic, but smaller house, like Fiji at Texas? How much better or worse? What campus leadership roles actually "mean something"? Student government president is usually the consensus most prestigious position on a campus, but the level of respect definitely varies from campus to campus. This kind of stuff is why it's hard to directly compare/rank fraternities across the South, much less across the nation, and we haven't even gotten into the intangibles, like how many brothers are douchebags.

What I'm saying is, you can rank houses, but I'd say that only maybe half of the ranking can be made objectively. The other half is up to the individual.

Yes, we all get it. Everything is subjective. But you have to start somewhere, and we are by no means the authorities on this stuff. It's just conversation fodder.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

The huge split between Ole Miss and Mississippi State seems strange to me on some level.

My observations come alot through FH and OR, because I'm not able to visit every campus (though I've visited a good 75% of the ones I listed). That influences alot of it because there are few to none (that I'm aware of) Mississippi St. people on those two boards. I have visited Mississippi St and was not terribly impressed.

My theory/reasons for the low standing of MS is that it doesn't have any significant chapters that would override Sigma Nu or Phi Delt at Ole Miss. No stellar chapter (lots of good chapters, though). Miss St.'s football tradition isn't excellent like Alabama's or Texas' or Georgia. Starkville is a miserable place and doesn't have the "Old South" feel that Oxford has (nor the bar scene, in my opinion). Perhaps this is my own biases, but I think alot of people would agree.

edit: And yeah, he's posted them two or three times. They're excellent in my opinion and a good line for determing fraternities.

[banditone]

One thing State does have going for it is some pretty darn incredible houses structure wise. Wow.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by banditone

One thing State does have going for it is some pretty darn incredible houses structure wise. Wow.

I really do think it may be underrated generally on the lists here. Starkville isn't the town that Athens is and Oxford sure looks better, and the county State is in was (maybe still is for all I know) a dry county which probably complicated the development of a good bar scene.

But State is one of the places where being greek is probably going to have a real impact on your collegiate and alumni life more than some of the other schools on the list, and it seems to me, certainly a lot more than NC State and whoever else it was grouped with.

I'm not really arguing it's top tier, just that it might be better than you think.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I really do think it may be underrated generally on the lists here. Starkville isn't the town that Athens is and Oxford sure looks better, and the county State is in was (maybe still is for all I know) a dry county which probably complicated the development of a good bar scene.

But State is one of the places where being greek is probably going to have a real impact on your collegiate and alumni life more than some of the other schools on the list, and it seems to me, certainly a lot more than NC State and whoever else it was grouped with.

I'm not really arguing it's top tier, just that it might be better than you think.

I agree. I think it could definitely be higher...possibly grouped in with Arkansas in the in-between 2nd and 3rd.

It's hard to rank with an incredible accuracy unless you did your undergrad at every college and even then you'd have problems. But I think it's a fair assessment of the standings.