The 2008 presidential field at-a-glance

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Everyone can take what they wish from the above as well as this from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/...ref=newssearch
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/...ch#cnnSTCVideo

I don't know if this helps...

http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard/?d=PA

But clearly Paul is still on the ballot

and somewhere down botom it sez "Refreshed every 5 mins"

I would tend to think , "Hmmmm if they refresh that every 5 mins...if someone leaves they may change that info to reflect that..."

I just work here

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by skylark

Okay, I very much disagree with this characterization of Florida.

First, just because a state legislature is made up of a majority of another party doesn't mean the state should be held unaccountable. If democrats are angry about what happened, what a great reason to reorganize themselves and petition the representatives to change it for next time. Or else maybe they should have done something beforehand and not just after the race heated up and they realized that "oh my gosh, this primary is actually important and worth fighting over."

Secondly (and more importantly, in my mind) only Hillary Clinton was on the ballot in florida, whereas every other candidate did as the DNC requested and took their name off of the ballot. Additionally, there has been rumors that Clinton DID lightly campaign in that state, and then after she won she was in Florida and declared it her victory.

This isn't a case of disenfranchisement. If either Florida or Michigan wanted their vote to count they should have made sure they followed the rules. Florida democrats, no matter what party their representatives were, should have organized themselves a long time ago if they were so concerned about their delegates counting. It isn't like this predicament was a surprise.

I personally hope the DNC doesn't back down or divides the delegates evenly. If there are "second chances" like this it will just mean there is less incentive for any other state to follow the rules or trust that when the DNC gives out rules at the beginning of a race, that they will stay the same throughout the race.

All of the candidates were on the ballot in Florida, you're thinking of Michigan. You're right about the campaigning, at least as far as rumors go. I don't think that revoting will invalidate the rules in the same way that seating the candidates as is would, but other than that I agree with you.

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

While this isn't the YouTube clip I was alluding to on Friday, this clip is as good, if not better than the original one I was telling you about.

And best of all, Ron Paul addresses some of Drolefille's and Nittany's issues they have been expressing concerning Ron Paul.

Bottom line: From Ron Paul himself, he is NOT dropping out.

Case closed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN9E3TIbRNU

I don't have any issues with Ron Paul, personally I think he's a few neurons shy. Ron Paul, whether he drops out or not, is not going to win the nomination. Thinking otherwise is irrational and depending on how fast they update the DSM possibly diagnosable.

[jon1856]

Obama: 'If I am not ready, how is it that you think I should be such a great vice president?'
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...president.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/...ign/index.html
IMVHO, this is something that will turn around a bite someone.
Him, Clinton, and/or the Dems.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Obama: 'If I am not ready, how is it that you think I should be such a great vice president?'
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...president.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/...ign/index.html
IMVHO, this is something that will turn around a bite someone.
Him, Clinton, and/or the Dems.

I read one of the CNN stories... and I think it's interesting... while he has won a lot of states, Clinton has won the "big states" and the DNC might think she's more electable against a Republican nominee? idk. I kind of feel like he sould at least be nice about it... esp. since he has that "I'm the nice one" thing going for him.

Obama: 'If I am not ready, how is it that you think I should be such a great vice president?'

Answer: Because Clinton thinks she's more ready than you? In all the debates he has said something to the effect of "Yes I believe Senator Clinton is very capable, but I believe I am more capable and ready to be President..." Maybe she thinks the same thing but she thinks she's more ready to handle the Presidency role than he is and that's why she's saying he would make a good VP?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

I read one of the CNN stories... and I think it's interesting... while he has won a lot of states, Clinton has won the "big states" and the DNC might think she's more electable against a Republican nominee? idk. I kind of feel like he sould at least be nice about it... esp. since he has that "I'm the nice one" thing going for him.

Obama: 'If I am not ready, how is it that you think I should be such a great vice president?'

Answer: Because Clinton thinks she's more ready than you? In all the debates he has said something to the effect of "Yes I believe Senator Clinton is very capable, but I believe I am more capable and ready to be President..." Maybe she thinks the same thing but she thinks she's more ready to handle the Presidency role than he is and that's why she's saying he would make a good VP?

Unfortunately she's saying that McCain has more experience and, implicitly, that even McCain would be a better choice than Obama. She's digging a hole.

I'm not sure how the second place candidate in both delegates and popular vote (down by around 100 delegates depending on who's counting, and about 300,000 votes which doesn't count the caucus states) gets to play "leader." It's insulting to him and I don't think he should play along. He's not attacking her back, but pointing out the doublespeak in her words.

[jon1856]

While there a few people do not appreciate these links to the Op-Ed
Cartoons, if you do there are a few good ones here about "The Final Three" to look at:
http://cagle.com/news/Final3/

[skylark]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

All of the candidates were on the ballot in Florida, you're thinking of Michigan.

I stand corrected on that point. There were murmorings for a while that she had done some under-the-radar campaigning in Florida. She also had a "victory" speach there, which I thought was a tacky attempt to control the news cycle on something completely pointless.

In response to AGDee, though, it isn't disenfranchisement if you don't vote according to the rules of the election. If you're a resident of County X, you can't expect to show up in County Z, where you work, and vote there because you feel you should have the right to. If you're a felon, then you vote, your vote isn't going to be counted either because you're ineligible. The bottom line is if you don't follow the rules, you can't expect your vote to count. If you have a problem with the rules, you need to raise your issues and come to a resolution (that everyone sticks to) from the beginning. If Floridians and Michigans didn't like the fact that their delegates weren't going to count, they should have fixed the problem before they held their early primaries.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by skylark

I stand corrected on that point. There were murmorings for a while that she had done some under-the-radar campaigning in Florida. She also had a "victory" speach there, which I thought was a tacky attempt to control the news cycle on something completely pointless.

In response to AGDee, though, it isn't disenfranchisement if you don't vote according to the rules of the election. If you're a resident of County X, you can't expect to show up in County Z, where you work, and vote there because you feel you should have the right to. If you're a felon, then you vote, your vote isn't going to be counted either because you're ineligible. The bottom line is if you don't follow the rules, you can't expect your vote to count. If you have a problem with the rules, you need to raise your issues and come to a resolution (that everyone sticks to) from the beginning. If Floridians and Michigans didn't like the fact that their delegates weren't going to count, they should have fixed the problem before they held their early primaries.

It's also not disenfranchisement since primaries are internal party matters. There's no constitutional right to vote in a primary.

[UGAalum94]

For what it's worth, I don't think there's any danger of Ron Paul splintering the GOP.

[Munchkin03]

Speaking as a (registered) Florida Democrat, I see no problem with the state's delegates not being seated at the Convention. I knew this was going to happen months ago--surely people who actually LIVE in the state saw this coming. Even Howard Dean, with his crazy azz, said the Florida Democratic Party was "out of control," and warned them about what could happen! Florida would be an important primary regardless of when it was held.

A mail-in ballot, after the primary has already been held, is a waste of taxpayer money that could go towards other things (like improving the schools in South Florida, maybe?). If we must have another primary, let it be on the Democratic Party's dime. They have to learn their lesson somehow.

[Thetagirl218]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

A mail-in ballot, after the primary has already been held, is a waste of taxpayer money that could go towards other things (like improving the schools in South Florida, maybe?).

As someone who has worked in Florida's "wonderful" school system, please let me echo that sentiment!

[skylark]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Speaking as a (registered) Florida Democrat, I see no problem with the state's delegates not being seated at the Convention. I knew this was going to happen months ago--surely people who actually LIVE in the state saw this coming. Even Howard Dean, with his crazy azz, said the Florida Democratic Party was "out of control," and warned them about what could happen! Florida would be an important primary regardless of when it was held.

A mail-in ballot, after the primary has already been held, is a waste of taxpayer money that could go towards other things (like improving the schools in South Florida, maybe?). If we must have another primary, let it be on the Democratic Party's dime. They have to learn their lesson somehow.

Thank you for posting this! I think that too many people picked up the news coverage on the issue only recently and so think the situation was like a big unpleasant "surprise" or something for FL and MI.

[DaemonSeid]

Ok...let's put this one on the table.

The new controversy this week is Obama's minister (now retired from TUCC) known for his fiery rhetorical views of America.

Is this such a new thing? No...believe or not MLK was similar to Wright.

Before any of you look at me and say SEID WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING


Read carefully:

I am not saying that Wright and King are the same types of people.

There is NO WAY that Wright can hold a candle to the accomplishments to King so before any of you get started on that tangent, let's make sure that we ARE CLEAR on that portion.

However....

I am saying this is not the first time a preacher has brought controversy to the politcal process. (Adam Clayton Powell, Sharpton, Jackson, Graham, Falwell, Hagee, and so forth!)


Did not the preachings of MLK piss off so many of those that disiliked his way of thinking, that he died before he hit 40 because of it?


Hmmm...let's sit back and wonder if MLK had been the good quiet minister, and 'stayed in his place' where the world would be today.

Let's wonder, if King had let Jim Crow laws and southern segregationalists have their way and not speak out against it where the world would be today.

Let's wonder if King had not stirred controversy (KEY WORD is CONTROVERSY) through sit ins, boycotts, marches and speeches, where the world would be today.

Alive, perhaps?

Forgotten in some backwater church? More than likely.

Better question to ask is this...had King survived his assassination attempt, what perhaps his train of thought would have been or be on today's world?

Nobody really knows, but what we DO know is that for the issues that King talked about, racial inequality and America policing the world is every bit as messed up because it doesn't take care of its own had enough legs that someone hated it enough to kill him for it.

You may want to read this link .

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/mlkday.htm

Again that is the ONLY correlation that I make with King and Wright.

Let me break it down further for those that are still reading.


Wright and King both have said things that has made MANY in America uncomfortable and uneasy.

Wright spoke out about 9/11 and the failure of the gov't to act.

King spoke out about America's involvemnt in Vietnam and it's failures there while simultaneously failing to move at that time to adequately address civil issues happening right here in the US.

HOWEVER, Wright is nowhere near the status of accomplishments of what King has done.


Now....let's move on...since the media is so busy being all up in Obama's church, let's ask about our other two candidates...

John McCain is of the belief that the USA is a "Christian" nation and is uncomfortable with a Muslim in the White House which pissed off both Muslims and Jews alike.
See this link BTW for a refresher: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/220/story_22001_1.html

Hillary Clinton's beliefs and convictions haven't come to the forefront as yet, but I can't wait to hear what she has to say considering that she is possibly anti atheist and part of a religion that may actually (in it's own twisted way) wants to carry out (LOL) John McCain 's vision of having a "Christian" nation.

http://atheism.about.com/od/hillaryc...onReligion.htm

So, let's go around the room...everyone raise their hands and say what religion you are affiliated with and tell us in 100 words or less why we, the public, should believe you.

[DaemonSeid]

Still no word from Florida however


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080314/...NqCxAGgJQb.3QA

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Still no word from Florida however


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080314/...NqCxAGgJQb.3QA

Well there sort of is:
Fla. presidential primary re-do unlikely

State chairwoman to make a decision by Monday on whether to proceed

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23610564/

But stay tuned for updates.