Less popular sororities

[UGAalum94]

EW,

I may have missed something in your posts. I understood you to say that because this chapter pledged a minority member that no decent group would want to associate with them socially, and you seemed to say it a way that indicated that you thought that this was right and good. As if, of course, after they pledged the minority member, no good groups would deal with them. They got what they deserved for being so stupid as to pledge a minority. Maybe I read over the part where you expressed sadness at the injustice of social shunning based on the race of members.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

EW,

I may have missed something in your posts. I understood you to say that because this chapter pledged a minority member that no decent group would want to associate with them socially, and you seemed to say it a way that indicated that you thought that this was right and good. As if, of course, after they pledged the minority member, no good groups would deal with them. They got what they deserved for being so stupid as to pledge a minority. Maybe I read over the part where you expressed sadness at the injustice of social shunning based on the race of members.

Well they were not doing terribly well before hand, so initial shunning had nothing to do with a minority.

Given the position they were in at the time (doing poorly on campus with no traditions/connections) and knowing the attitude of the campus towards this sort of thing at the time, it was not a good choice to pick a minority. If one wants to look at reality and what it set off, then there's no way around it.

Top sororities can pledge a minority and everything be great because they rest on their tradition. A relatively new sorority (and struggling) cannot do the same. At the position they were in at the time, it was not a good idea but of course this is all in hindsight which is an important thing to consider.

The entire point of what I have been driving home repetitively is that it is about tradition and connections, which was what I said in my initial post. If they have the tradition and connections, a sorority can do whatever it likes with it's pledge classes and be successful (resting on it's laurels, essentially), regardless of the social attitudes in the area.

I don't have to express "sadness at the injustice" etc, because this is evident as well. It is my cousins sorority and I hate to see it fall off like it will because of poor decisions and certain social taboos. It was her only shot at a sorority because she was from out of state.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Well they were not doing terribly well before hand, so initial shunning had nothing to do with a minority.

Given the position they were in at the time (doing poorly on campus with no traditions/connections) and knowing the attitude of the campus towards this sort of thing at the time, it was not a good choice to pick a minority. If one wants to look at reality and what it set off, then there's no way around it.

Top sororities can pledge a minority and everything be great because they rest on their tradition. A relatively new sorority (and struggling) cannot do the same. At the position they were in at the time, it was not a good idea but of course this is all in hindsight which is an important thing to consider.

The entire point of what I have been driving home repetitively is that it is about tradition and connections, which was what I said in my initial post. If they have the tradition and connections, a sorority can do whatever it likes with it's pledge classes and be successful (resting on it's laurels, essentially), regardless of the social attitudes in the area.

I don't have to express "sadness at the injustice" etc, because this is evident as well. It is my cousins sorority and I hate to see it fall off like it will because of poor decisions and certain social taboos. It was her only shot at a sorority because she was from out of state.

If you care about not coming off as racist, I think you have to be more careful about how you present the circumstances.

I don't dispute for a minute that a new or struggling chapter faces a different level of risk if they innovate in any way. But when it comes to losing even more status for making a membership decision that is punished, for lack of a better word, for the race of the new member, either in whole or part (meaning maybe it's race, maybe it's half class), it's the system with the problem rather than the chapter.

It doesn't change the outcome for the chapter, but it should change how we think of the situation and it should, if you really are interested in racial justice, provoke a desire to change the system.

ETA: I'm not trying to get on some moral high horse with you. A couple of years ago, Macallen and I went a few rounds on this issue in one of the fraternity threads, and I don't really care about doing it again. It's just a tough situation. It requires that elite groups recognize that they have a greater responsibility than any other groups for the continued segregation of the system and, if you care about moral leadership, really requires that they step up and behave differently. Members of these groups don't necessarily want to. They want to have the same kind of effortless associations with other people like themselves that they've had for generations and since they pride themselves on being the most selective groups, they are particularly resentful of being pressed on membership decisions from the outside.

[SWTXBelle]

Speaking as an apparently race-less southern sorority alumna who is really interested in the op, may I suggest that we ignore any self-serving tangents and again address ourselves to the hows and whys of chapters that seem to be regarded as "lower tier", and what they can do about it?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Speaking as an apparently race-less southern sorority alumna who is really interested in the op, may I suggest that we ignore any self-serving tangents and again address ourselves to the hows and whys of chapters that seem to be regarded as "lower tier", and what they can do about it?

Sure. I'm game.

What do you think we haven't discussed that might be worth discussing?

ETA: Do you think that chapters regarded as "lower tier" or struggling don't show as well in recruitment sometimes because they are more concerned with practicality in the clothes they wear, for instance keeping the dress the same for members from year to year so the girls don't have to buy new outfits, and as a result seem dated and less fashionable?

I know this is ridiculously superficial, but please keep in mind my range of experience.

[SWTXBelle]

Let me throw this out there - what do you think is the most important component for a successful turn-around? Alumnae advisors, chapter officers, HQ involvement - what?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Let me throw this out there - what do you think is the most important component for a successful turn-around? Alumnae advisors, chapter officers, HQ involvement - what?

This is so much better a question. I haven't seen enough turn arounds to say, but I am eager to read the answers.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Let me throw this out there - what do you think is the most important component for a successful turn-around? Alumnae advisors, chapter officers, HQ involvement - what?

I think alumnae advisors who weren't actives on the current campus bringing fresh perspectives and new ideas can have a tremendous impact.

It is so easy for chapters to get into the "we've always done it this way" mindset, and not realize what needs to change in their rush (better conversation, better ability to "sell" themselves, new skit ideas, etc). Sometimes groups need to be awakened to their way isn't the only way, as they may not even be aware of other ways to do things.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Let me throw this out there - what do you think is the most important component for a successful turn-around? Alumnae advisors, chapter officers, HQ involvement - what?

If it is a numbers issue, not bidding anyone or everyone. All it takes is the element of questionable behavior, grades, or risk management issues to make things a lot worse. Not only can it mess up reputation and other issues, but if these new members are particularly heinous, older members who are not problems may bail because of it. Sure you may have made quota, but those women may also be your downfall.

Also advisors and collegiate officers need to be willing to get rid of problem people. I don't mean in the DePauw way but if there is a member putting pictures of herself snorting coke off random fratties while in a lettered thong all over Facebook, she doesn't participate, and her grades suck, better to drop her fast and not worry about one person as a number. She could actually be causing more problems and driving potential members away.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Let me throw this out there - what do you think is the most important component for a successful turn-around? Alumnae advisors, chapter officers, HQ involvement - what?

Support from the campus - a Greek system that wants all the chapters to be at the best they can, not one that delights in having a "bottom chapter" or two to pick on.

This is far more important that anything else, IMO. Even if one chapter does manage to "turn around" by taking a great pledge class or getting more involved on campus, it just means another chapter will go to the bottom and the cycle will start all over again.

Alumnae, advisors and HQ can be beneficial if they 1) offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and 2) don't try to make the chapter into something it's not. It is possible to improve your reputation without compromising your standards.

[bejazd]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Let me throw this out there - what do you think is the most important component for a successful turn-around? Alumnae advisors, chapter officers, HQ involvement - what?

A well trained, dedicated alumna advisor who connects with the chapter but knows that her role is to advise, not re-live her collegiate experience is invaluable to any solid chapter. Support from HQ and input from consultants are also important parts of the recipe.

But in order to have a real turnaround, you have to have a core group of women within the chapter who decide that they will take responsibility for their own chapter's success: they must decide that they will not let anyone else define them.

It comes down to a real lesson in personal responsibilty and understanding that every area of chapter life (scholarship, finances, risk management, creative and meaningful programming, social experiences and sisterhood) all matter. The national officers, supportive alums, an enthusiastic advisor and the consultants are great, but they aren't going to represent the chapter for you 24/7, 365 days a year. That's up to the actual chapter members to do for themselves.