"Shame on you, Barack Obama"

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Ah, it's certainly good to hear that Obama's connections in Nairobi are sound. I've long considered the (overwhelmingly internal) corruption in Kenya on par with the psychotic anti-American, terrorist-sponsoring, human-rights-violating tack preferred (and proffered) by Tehran.

Look, feel free to be pacifistic all you want - that's what America is all about. But this is essentially the "you need dicks in this world" monologue from Team America in action - I would be appalled if Obama took a soft stance (ineffective sanctions would be a grand example) on Iran going forward.

My only point was that he has more foreign relations experience than people give him credit for. He's said he'll be tough in Afghanistan and has emphasized that his number one priority is to keep the American people safe, it's just a change in tactics. It's not a pacifist POV, btw. I'm more of a Just War person and I would serve in this nation's military if necessary. Blowing off someone who wants to increase our positive foreign relations - with countries who are our allies no less - as pacifism is ignoring the fact that Americans are thought poorly of in much of the world. American patriotism is associated with jingoism and preemptive strikes, not loving our country.

There's a difference between ineffective sanctions and going "We're going to have to go to war with Iran" every five minutes. We almost went to war because we listened to a joke broadcast when two ships were standing off. Seriously, put the dicks, and Team America, away.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

My only point was that he has more foreign relations experience than people give him credit for. He's said he'll be tough in Afghanistan and has emphasized that his number one priority is to keep the American people safe, it's just a change in tactics. It's not a pacifist POV, btw. I'm more of a Just War person and I would serve in this nation's military if necessary.

Foreign policy experience is not the same as "connections in Kenya" - and I openly question whether that experience carries over into a dangerous and difficult situation such as Iran. That's my point.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Blowing off someone who wants to increase our positive foreign relations - with countries who are our allies no less - as pacifism is ignoring the fact that Americans are thought poorly of in much of the world. American patriotism is associated with jingoism and preemptive strikes, not loving our country.

I'm all for increasing positive foreign relationships - that's been one of the downfalls of the Bush administration, I'll certainly agree. But it is pandering to associate my post with jingoism, especially when you've chosen the intentionally inflammatory "dick measuring contest" metaphor as your base of attack.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

There's a difference between ineffective sanctions and going "We're going to have to go to war with Iran" every five minutes. We almost went to war because we listened to a joke broadcast when two ships were standing off. Seriously, put the dicks, and Team America, away.

You either missed my point, or chose not to acknowledge it because of how I packaged it - that's pretty shitty, but to each her own.

There is a difference between the two, of course - there are also situations where "positive foreign relations" is a poor course to follow. Iran is likely a bigger threat to Americans than Iraq or Afghanistan. Sometimes force is required - and, since you're not a pacifist, you'll surely agree with that.