Soliloquy's Fall 2007 recruitment

[barnard1897]

I don't know Soliloquy, have never PMed or communicated with her at all. That said, I didn't take her comments to be prideful, in the negative sense. I think she was just trying to express that she was proud to be part of something that might help her chances of getting more notice if she does go through FR again. We can all support the fact that the better leadership you can demonstrate, the better you look to any house. Whatever she has become part of, it sounds like something a lot of Greeks on her campus support and are impressed by--what's wrong with that and with her telling us that? She's been sharing her story all along and we've been following with (mostly) support. Now that she's found something positive to bring to the table, why not applaud?

I could maybe see where some people came away with a different impression. And I agree, no sense giving false promise to any PNM. But if we could count the hundreds, thousands, of girls over the years who went through FR the first time and didn't make the cut, would we all just deem them inferior or somehow deficient for it, and ourselves better for getting in? I personally know many amazing women who went through a second time and pledged successfully, as well as went on to become wonderful leaders. Let's not kid ourselves. The process can be imperfect, harsh, and arbitrary, and we do miss good people along the way. But we're here to show all who come to these boards, Greek or not, that we are a great community and that we certainly give people more than one chance to show their potential contributions to our chapters.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

Preach 1897!

Good luck Sol!

[kddani]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Are you just deliberately trying to be pissy? Should I give you a rating on a scale of 1 to 10 of how well I think I know her?

Seriously, people, I am not one to follow all the new rush threads posting meaningless drivel. I am NOT one of the sunshine crew! I feel strongly about this particular PNM and I don't have to justify that to anyone.

What did she say that was "pissy"? She was being devil's advocate. There's no need to be so angry against people who have a differing viewpoint from you.

I would agree with her statement. You don't really "know" someone that you've only talked to online somewhat. There have been more than a few people that have come on here and presented themselves well and everyone loved them. Then we find out that they've lied about themselves - either their affiliation, background, name, etc. There's been more than a few. Anyone can be anyone they want online, when it is anonymous. It's even gone so far that people carry on the lie to real life. More than a few people got hurt, because they carried on relationships with these people then found out it was all based on lies.

I don't know if that's the case with the OP, but that's the point, I don't know.

She rushed, and was not given a bid. We need to trust our collegiate sister's judgments - it's their decision, not ours. I personally am trusting our KD sisters at the OP's school. Whatever reason they had, it was their reason, it's none of our business now, and I trust it.

[Soliloquy]

Originally Posted by barnard1897

I don't know Soliloquy, have never PMed or communicated with her at all. That said, I didn't take her comments to be prideful, in the negative sense. I think she was just trying to express that she was proud to be part of something that might help her chances of getting more notice if she does go through FR again. We can all support the fact that the better leadership you can demonstrate, the better you look to any house. Whatever she has become part of, it sounds like something a lot of Greeks on her campus support and are impressed by--what's wrong with that and with her telling us that? She's been sharing her story all along and we've been following with (mostly) support. Now that she's found something positive to bring to the table, why not applaud?

I could maybe see where some people came away with a different impression. And I agree, no sense giving false promise to any PNM. But if we could count the hundreds, thousands, of girls over the years who went through FR the first time and didn't make the cut, would we all just deem them inferior or somehow deficient for it, and ourselves better for getting in? I personally know many amazing women who went through a second time and pledged successfully, as well as went on to become wonderful leaders. Let's not kid ourselves. The process can be imperfect, harsh, and arbitrary, and we do miss good people along the way. But we're here to show all who come to these boards, Greek or not, that we are a great community and that we certainly give people more than one chance to show their potential contributions to our chapters.

EXACTLY.

[SthrnZeta]

So I guess the question to the OP is, after all this, do you plan to rush again?

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by kddani

I would agree with her statement. You don't really "know" someone that you've only talked to online somewhat.

I don't mean to totally hijack this thread, but I have to disagree with this statement. One of my best friends I met online. We met through a yahoo group for one of our old fave TV shows. While chatting online we discovered that we had other things in common and started chatting via email, we then moved to phone. We talked for over a year via phone, email and IM before I got to meet her IRL. We are still very good friends to this day, but her being in a different state than I am makes it difficult for us to see each other.

I just state this story of mine because if the OP is honest with herself and whomever she is communicating with outside GC, I truly believe that those she is communicating with "know her".

But that is your opinion, so I'm not going to tell you that it is wrong for you to have the opinion, because it's not. I just happen to disagree with it

[kddani]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

I don't mean to totally hijack this thread, but I have to disagree with this statement. One of my best friends I met online. We met through a yahoo group for one of our old fave TV shows. While chatting online we discovered that we had other things in common and started chatting via email, we then moved to phone. We talked for over a year via phone, email and IM before I got to meet her IRL. We are still very good friends to this day, but her being in a different state than I am makes it difficult for us to see each other.

I just state this story of mine because if the OP is honest with herself and whomever she is communicating with outside GC, I truly believe that those she is communicating with "know her".

But that is your opinion, so I'm not going to tell you that it is wrong for you to have the opinion, because it's not. I just happen to disagree with it

That's fine. I, too, feel as if I know a lot of GCers quite well, and I haven't met them in person (though many I have). But that's also been formed over a number of years.

However, I'm thinking more specifically of KDLady00 and others whom I will not specifically bring up (because those people really hurt others who thought they trusted them).

And the person whose quote I quoted (but removed the name) isn't someone whom I believe has really talked with this girl that extensively.

Over the years, the "XYZ group doesn't know what they're missing" and other similar phrases have popped up a lot. I understand that it's usually said in innocence. However, it also gives false hope to some people. It's rare that a girl who is cut from all groups, even when maximizing her options, ends up having a successful rush in a subsequent year.

To the OP, sorry for derailing your thread, this happens sometimes on message boards. I don't know you, you may very well be a great person and I don't think anything anyone has said is really directed to you personally. A lot of us tend to view these threads very one-dimensionally, almost as hypothetical situations and sort of examine them that way. In the process, we do lose track of the fact that there's a real person behind them (who may really be genuine). For that I apologize.

[SthrnZeta]

Very very well said, kddani. *applauds*

[SWTXBelle]

I think it fair to say that we all hope that all qualified pnms will find a sorority home where they can contribute, and which will enable them to grow and take advantage of all that sorority membership offers. With the exception of the occasional crazy, we know that it is possible. The road is often filled with obstacles, and it can be tough. I know that I try to be encouraging in a very general way because it simply isn't possible to know all the variables at work with anyone's recruitment experience. I do think that if we see a pnm wandering into dangerous territory in terms of attitude or postings it is in the pnm's best interest to warn them. It may be a simple matter of misunderstanding, but surely anyone mature enough to go through recruitment can accept some constructive criticism. That said, as sorority women I think we should strive to be encouraging AND realistic, and provide advice and encouragement while remaining objective about the fact we really don't know all that much about the specific situation.

[SthrnZeta]

SWT, you and kddani are just hitting the nail on the head today! Another well-stated post!

[AOII Angel]

In what way does "XYZ doesn't know what they're missing" give PNMs false hope? Do PNMs somehow think that GC members will get a vote at recruitment? I think it is completely reasonable to tell a PNM (even if you've only met her online) that she would make a great member even if the blind girls at her school don't see it. It's a personal opinion that I'm sure a PNM won't confuse with the thoughts of another sorority at another campus. There are some people who need pep talks along the way. I'm not one of them, but my bio sister called home crying after signing her bid card. While I thought she was silly, who am I to tell her that her feelings are not valid. One positive word can make the difference to a hurting girl who isn't sure what to do. If Soliloquy wants to give it another try, more power to her. She WOULD make a great asset. That does not mean she will actually get a bid, but she definitely never would if she didn't try.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

In what way does "XYZ doesn't know what they're missing" give PNMs false hope. Do PNMs somehow think that GC members will get a vote at recruitment? I think it is completely reasonable to tell a PNM (even if you've only met her online) that she would make a great member even if the blind girls at her school don't see it. It's a personal opinion that I'm sure a PNM won't confuse with the thoughts of another sorority at another campus. There are some people who need pep talks along the way. I'm not one of them, but my bio sister called home crying after signing her bid card. While I thought she was silly, who am I to tell her that her feelings are not valid. One positive word can make the difference to a hurting girl who isn't sure what to do. If Soliloquy wants to give it another try, more power to her. She WOULD make a great asset. That does not mean she will actually get a bid, but she definitely never would if she didn't try.

Not necessarily a vote, but I have heard of GC members influencing a PNM's rush by contacting their own sisters at the campus the PNM is rushing at.

I myself have never done such a thing...but as most of you already know, there are GCers who will stop at nothing to make sure the PNM doesn't get a bid to their org. Most of the time, they're successful.

That's why I encourage PNMs to keep their mouths shut until AFTER their rush is over! A lot of them can't seem to do so!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by OTW

Not necessarily a vote, but I have heard of GC members influencing a PNM's rush by contacting their own sisters at the campus the PNM is rushing at.

I myself have never done such a thing...but as most of you already know, there are GCers who will stop at nothing to make sure the PNM doesn't get a bid to their org. Most of the time, they're successful.

That's why I encourage PNMs to keep their mouths shut until AFTER their rush is over! A lot of them can't seem to do so!

I have to say I completely agree with you there, OTW! I can't believe how PSYCHO people can be on this site...the recent case of an outing was unfortunate and unfair considering the girl was no more judgemental than I'm sure 98% of the other PNMs are! I would definitely be hesitent to post anything until after the fact given the history of this site!!

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

In what way does "XYZ doesn't know what they're missing" give PNMs false hope? Do PNMs somehow think that GC members will get a vote at recruitment? I think it is completely reasonable to tell a PNM (even if you've only met her online) that she would make a great member even if the blind girls at her school don't see it. It's a personal opinion that I'm sure a PNM won't confuse with the thoughts of another sorority at another campus. There are some people who need pep talks along the way. I'm not one of them, but my bio sister called home crying after signing her bid card. While I thought she was silly, who am I to tell her that her feelings are not valid. One positive word can make the difference to a hurting girl who isn't sure what to do. If Soliloquy wants to give it another try, more power to her. She WOULD make a great asset. That does not mean she will actually get a bid, but she definitely never would if she didn't try.

The problem is...you may know her personality, what she's done and other stuff about her, but you DO NOT KNOW that she will "make a great asset". You don't know little stuff - some people sound GREAT on paper or online, but in real life they're incredibly annoying and self-centered. [Not that she necessarily is...but YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.] Someone who has a high GPA and many activities and positions on her resume does NOT a good member make. And THAT is the key.

And, the problem with telling them that they'll make a great asset to a sorority is that for girls who will NEVER fit into the greek system, it only encourages them to keep trying and keep trying and keep trying...and keep failing. I don't know if you've ever read the "Weird Rush" stories, but there are definitely some about girls who keep going through and going through and going through and NEVER getting bids, because even though they think they're perfect for it and Mommy and those nice girls on the internet tell them that they're great assets and should do it again and again, they don't realize that maybe Greek life isn't for them. Maybe if someone had sat down that girl and said, "You need to seriously reconsider never rushing again, because Greek life is NOT for everyone", then they wouldn't get that heartbreak over and over again.

If Soliloquy gets cut from all 4 sororities again, are you STILL going to say that she would make a great asset? What if she rushes again and gets cut completely again? Unless you're prepared to tell her that all those horrible chapter sisters at her school are so bad and wrong for cutting her not matter HOW many times she rushes, [since that's basically what you're saying, that you don't trust their judgment] then you should not say it in the first place.

And in case that last part was unclear, any girl who rushes multiple times and does not get a bid is probably not a good fit for Greek life. I trust my sisters to make decisions, and I would NEVER head over to any other chapter and tell them, "You made a HUGE mistake cutting this girl!" especially if I didn't know her in person or before recruitment. We simply need to trust their judgment.



To the OP: Please don't take what I said above as an attack on you, because it isn't. There ARE women who fall through the cracks, and if you're one of them, then you should be fine when you re-rush. This is less about you than it is about people making misleading promises. Even if you don't take them like that, others will. Good luck with recruitment, and let us know how it goes.

[Senusret I]

You know what...... they didn't want her. I really don't see what the problem is here. Sorority life isn't for her, so say the sororities on her campus.

It's POSSIBLE that if none of the 4 sororities needed more members that MAYBE there's a need for a fifth sorority. But probably not.

I say the people in this chick's corner continue to be her friend IRL, on email, on IMs, whatever. But don't tell folks to cut her slack or not be bitchy, because frankly I WISH somebody would gain a "position" on their campus or out in the world and think that makes them more desirable to me IF I ALREADY VOTED NO.