My Sorority Pledge? I Swore Off Sisterhood

[carnation]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

I'm sure my friends mother who was kicked out of Chi Omega for having the audacity to be black in the 1970s would feel differently. I'm sure the Catholic and Jewish women who were turned away from houses would feel differently too.

I'd know. I'm the daughter of one of them. She was there. I'm the friend of one of them. She was there too.

I expect they probably figured out she was black before they pledged her.

As for the Catholics, I can only speak for the SEC schools I went to but there were loads of Greek Catholics on the campuses; Pi Phi had a whole bunch of them from Mobile. Nobody thought they were any different from the Protestants.

The Jews? Out of the hundreds of other students I met at my schools, I only knew one Jewish guy and his fraternity (AEPi) was tiny; Auburn, Arkansas, and Mississippi State weren't exactly loaded down with Jews. But y'know, this has nothing to do with our morality at the time. That statement was totally random and a very strange thing to see stated as fact from one who wasn't there.

[ladygreek]

While I think PM_Mama's statement was over the top, I do understand what she is saying. And in someways I agree based on personal experiences.

[sarasmile]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I don't agree with that. I think women are evil. They will always be selfish, no matter how nice and giving they are. They are doing it for their own good or agenda.

Wow. I'm not even sure what else to say to that. Well, that and pointing out the concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Its unfortunate that your experiences have brought you to that conclusion.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by carnation

I expect they probably figured out she was black before they pledged her.

As for the Catholics, I can only speak for the SEC schools I went to but there were loads of Greek Catholics on the campuses; Pi Phi had a whole bunch of them from Mobile. Nobody thought they were any different from the Protestants.

The Jews? Out of the hundreds of other students I met at my schools, I only knew one Jewish guy and his fraternity (AEPi) was tiny; Auburn, Arkansas, and Mississippi State weren't exactly loaded down with Jews. But y'know, this has nothing to do with our morality at the time. That statement was totally random and a very strange thing to see stated as fact from one who wasn't there.

I have told this story on here before. She pledged Chi O. She was initiated into Chi O. A traveling consultant from Chi O then came and said "WHAT? We can't have black sisters!" and she quit rather than make her chapter kick her out. This was in the early 1970s at a liberal arts college in Wisconsin.

You must have attended college later than my mother and her friends, who were in school in the early 70s as well.

That statement wasn't random. You assert that sororities are exactly the same as they used to be except recruitment. I am showing you an example of how that isn't true.

And to get back off the "let's derail anything GeekyPenguin posts because I think she has a hidden agenda about me for some reason" train, I think what happened to this women is really unfortunate. Many women look to sororities to provide a strong, empowering female experience and that clearly isn't what she got.

[honeychile]

I wonder if it had more to do with the consultant than Chi Omega's HQ? A single bigot can wreak havoc in any organization.

But we're derailing the article & main topic of this thread. Doesn't anyone else wonder if the New York Times would be in a hurry to print an article on "How I Pledged 21 Years Ago, and It Was One of the Best Moves I Ever Made"?

[Animate]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

While I think PM_Mama's statement was over the top, I do understand what she is saying. And in someways I agree based on personal experiences.

Exactly! Her statement may have a bit over the top but it does hold some truth. There is a reason for the statement "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

No. It's being truthful without shoving sunshine up anyone's asses.

I think there's a level of truthfulness that can be obtained without asserting that all women are evil, particularly since there is no way possible physically that you have met all the women in the world. Was Eleanor Roosevelt evil? Was Mother Theresa evil? Were all the other women, alive, and dead, that suffered for their country, cause, or creed, evil? I beg to differ. That's not "shoving sunshine up anyones asses," as you so flagrantly put it, that is looking at the world with an optimistic view, as opposed to a hopeless view.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

While I think PM_Mama's statement was over the top, I do understand what she is saying. And in someways I agree based on personal experiences.

Same here

Originally Posted by Little32

But how can you blame her, when as an 18 year old who just endured a horrible experience and looked to her sisters for support, she instead experienced condemnation and betrayal. 1700 miles from home, her support system abandoned her, and she never really dealt with it; because on top of a rape, how do you reconcile that type of betrayal.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I don't doubt that she feels rage for the guy. The difference with men and women in this story is that the women-- her SISTERS-- failed her badly. The men apologized to her. That's pretty sad.

Bottom line.

Originally Posted by Little32
I say bravo to her that she had the fortitude to stay in school and finish and that she went on to law school and seems to have established a healthy family life for herself. She admits that she has some work to do, but I find it odd that all the comments focused on the one thing that she has not managed to accomplish yet.

I agree

[carnation]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

I have told this story on here before. She pledged Chi O. She was initiated into Chi O. A traveling consultant from Chi O then came and said "WHAT? We can't have black sisters!" and she quit rather than make her chapter kick her out. This was in the early 1970s at a liberal arts college in Wisconsin.

You must have attended college later than my mother and her friends, who were in school in the early 70s as well.

That statement wasn't random. You assert that sororities are exactly the same as they used to be except recruitment. I am showing you an example of how that isn't true.

And to get back off the "let's derail anything GeekyPenguin posts because I think she has a hidden agenda about me for some reason" train, I think what happened to this women is really unfortunate. Many women look to sororities to provide a strong, empowering female experience and that clearly isn't what she got.

I didn't mean that your statement was random-- I meant that cuteASAbug's was, I don't want to derail your posts, and I attended college in the early seventies. (In the Deep South.) I also hate derailing threads. However, it's important to me and to the other older women who post here that the Greek system of that time be defended.

And many sororities pledged people back in the day who were non-white or partially non-white. *Like me.* The people who recommended us and the ones who pledged us knew it and certainly several national consultants who dropped by could tell.

[33girl]

As far as the women vs men in terms of interacting - and women being "evil", I don't think it's true at all.

For the most part, men will call you on your shit while women won't. Women will hang onto cliquiness and grudges longer than men will. But this is definitely NOT a female only behavior - trust me I know some "drama kings" - example, inviting all your exes and one or 2 girls you want to shtup to a party you're having. A man who does that is NOT trying to avoid drama.

Some women are horrible evil bitches, but not all of them. Saying that most women hate their best friend - well, maybe that's true in high school when you're thrown together according to your activities/looks/family name, but those aren't really "friendships." It's certainly not in college or later, unless a woman doesn't let her true self show. I know my best friend and I had times when we were younger when we were so up each others' butts we knew it was driving everyone else nuts and ready to drive us nuts, so we just hung out w/ other people for a while.

[SWTXBelle]

I think one problem here is the term "evil". That's a pretty loaded term. Luckily, very few people are what I would term "evil". Are people 100% moral and righteous all of the time? No - but most of us try, and our level of "badness" doesn't descend into the "evil" category.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

I think there's a level of truthfulness that can be obtained without asserting that all women are evil, particularly since there is no way possible physically that you have met all the women in the world. Was Eleanor Roosevelt evil? Was Mother Theresa evil? Were all the other women, alive, and dead, that suffered for their country, cause, or creed, evil? I beg to differ. That's not "shoving sunshine up anyones asses," as you so flagrantly put it, that is looking at the world with an optimistic view, as opposed to a hopeless view.

And all the world's a rainbow.

I think we all have different definitions for the term "evil". And yes... all the women I've met have been evil in some way... whether it was towards another woman or to a man.

[midwesterngirl]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

I hate saying this, but it sounds like this woman simply needs to go to some therapy and move on. I empathize with her being raped, but at what point do you allow yourself to heal, and say "screw them for making me feel that way"? She said herself she tried to use other things to make herself feel better.

So true. Until she does let go and moves on, this event and these people will continue to have power over her on a daily basis. Twenty years is a lifetime to hold onto this poison and she needs to let go. She can't change what happened to her but for her own mental functionality, she needs to change how she looks at it. Obviously she doesn't have to like it but she needs to come to terms with it and stop allowing these people to have power over her life after all these years.

[ZTAMich]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I don't agree with that. I think women are evil. They will always be selfish, no matter how nice and giving they are. They are doing it for their own good or agenda.

My co-worker was telling me about this article today at work. Before I got to read it we were chatting just in general about women and our relationships together. We commented on the fact that when you put women together in social settings, more times than not, we don't get along. There's too much competition, jealousy, etc etc. So I think your statement is true in many ways.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

This is what she said before that. It seems he took it farther, because she was unconscious.

"I indulged, partied hard and, a scant two months into the semester, lost my virginity.

But not in the traditional way.

It happened after a fraternity barn dance. All I knew about my date was that he was festively inclined and physically stunning. My sisters considered him a catch. I felt lucky.

After the usual alcoholic overindulgence, I followed him upstairs, where I soon passed out on his sofa. There, I assumed the starring role in a garden-variety “ledge party,” my deflowering on display for anyone desiring a peek."

Yeah, I misread that the first time--I thought it said that it was stopped BEFORE any inappropriate contact, but I am not reading that now. Ugh. How sad. I hope, for her daughters, she does something about how she is feeling.