Latino Greek Letter Organizations

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by nitido357

I agree that definition of ethnicity has become a matter of personal preference in this nation we live in. Very cool for us

My original response to your comment was mainly aimed at your assertion that Spanish was used as a descriptor by Latinos and non-Latinos and the time period that you placed it on. I didn't think that 1999-2000 sounded right because even misinformed Latinos know that Spanish is a language. No disrespect, but where did you live? Perhaps that would help me understand your point.

If you actually read the entire thread and/or had an understanding of the original question you'd know that the organization in question is Mu Sigma Upsilon founded in 1981 and not 1999/2007. In the 1980s in the Northeast "Spanish" was heavily used where "Latino" is currently used. I also said prior to going to college in 1999 I had NEVER heard latino used as an ethnicity/descriptor of latin american people. If your personal experience is something different then so be it. In the end of the day, whether or not you believe "spanish" is a correct term to use to describe a group of people or not, you nor I, nor anybody else can tell someone how they should self identify.

[dxp_tiktok]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

In the end of the day, whether or not you believe "spanish" is a correct term to use to describe a group of people or not, you nor I, nor anybody else can tell someone how they should self identify.

I agree. Our campus had a "Conversations in Diversity" program on this same issue and the terms Hispanic, Latino, Chicano, Mexican-American were discussed by students and faculty. Each person had their own opinion, and the great thing was that were able to openly discuss the history of the terms, especially since California has a huge population of people from this background. The lesson was like you stated - we determine our identity through our heritage and experiences. No one should decide that for us.

[nitido357]

carambola!!!! E-Z folks...pump your brakes a little.

I have read the entire thread. I did not address the whole "Mu Sigma Upsilon called themselves spanish" thing because that was not my concern or something that I cared much for.

I am aware that "I'm Spanish, and spanish is this or that"and all of the mish-mash in between.

I just did not agree with the Madam/Señorita/Señora/Dama/Doña that said "before college ...1999-2000..." because I was a dude that lived in the NE during that time and before that and traveled a bit in the area and didn't really experience that at all.

Perhaps that was due to the people I associated with, or the folks at the train stop or whatever...who cares. Point I was making is simple, Hispanic/Latino was not a new thing brought about the Y, more PC generation; like some responses in this thread had stated.

Folks, for the sake of being counted, census bureau folks have come up with about 25 different combinations of Hispanic with something to account for us exercising our right to self-determine our ethnicity. Trust, I recently had to write some newsprint on the rise of Hispanics in the US and localize that. So good for us, the system had to change for us!!!!

Now to the gent that said this ""Latino" or "Hispanic" are nomenclatures that are very frequently inaccurately applied - an example is people from Mexico or the Phillipnes."

I don't claim to have an Advanced Degree on this, but last time I checked with the locals of Mexican Birth and Mexican-Americans...they do use the terms Latino and Hispanic..and granted, they are not the Elitist folks from DF, these are folks from Sonora, Guerrero, Aguas Calientes, Nuevo Leon, Puebla, etc.....so what do you mean by Inaccurate? Not saying you are wrong, just want to hear your reasoning...

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by nitido357

carambola!!!! E-Z folks...pump your brakes a little.

I have read the entire thread. I did not address the whole "Mu Sigma Upsilon called themselves spanish" thing because that was not my concern or something that I cared much for.

I am aware that "I'm Spanish, and spanish is this or that"and all of the mish-mash in between.

I just did not agree with the Madam/Señorita/Señora/Dama/Doña that said "before college ...1999-2000..." because I was a dude that lived in the NE during that time and before that and traveled a bit in the area and didn't really experience that at all.

Again, your lack of reading has you missing the original point made and you seem to missing the fact that I, among several other posters, have clearly stated that in our PERSONAL experiences "Spanish" was used to describe/identify Latinos before we entered college, and upon entering college Latino became the more commonly heard/used term. Which is why in my response to Serenity (at least I think it was her), I stated the decade in which the organization was founded (the 1980s) "Spanish" was a common descriptor for latinos, particularly in the North East. No one made the claim that latino was a "new" term established circa the turn of the century, but that we didn't witness it's usage until then. If your experiences are/were different, great, those are your personal experiences, yet it still does not negate what everyone else has said.

Originally Posted by nitido357

I don't claim to have an Advanced Degree on this, but last time I checked with the locals of Mexican Birth and Mexican-Americans...they do use the terms Latino and Hispanic..and granted, they are not the Elitist folks from DF, these are folks from Sonora, Guerrero, Aguas Calientes, Nuevo Leon, Puebla, etc.....so what do you mean by Inaccurate? Not saying you are wrong, just want to hear your reasoning...

Locals is the key word in the paragraph. You are currently in Texas (according the location you filled out in GC) and what it is in Texas is not always what it is in Boston, NYC, or Jersey City, etc. You are trying to extrapolate what you know from Texas, to the entire US/other regions of the country. There are undoubtedly similarities, as there are undoubtedly differences.

[AlphaFrog]

I've asked my husband what he (and his friends - Mostly Colombian and Salvadorian) prefers, and he will tolerate Latino, Hispanic, Spanish, or for him personally - Jarocho (it's what he really prefers, but it can't be applied very widely). Really, anything but Chicano, he does not like the term Chicano.

[nitido357]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

Again, your lack of reading has you missing the original point made and you seem to missing the fact that I, among several other posters, have clearly stated that in our PERSONAL experiences "Spanish" was used to describe/identify Latinos before we entered college, and upon entering college Latino became the more commonly heard/used term. Which is why in my response to Serenity (at least I think it was her), I stated the decade in which the organization was founded (the 1980s) "Spanish" was a common descriptor for latinos, particularly in the North East. No one made the claim that latino was a "new" term established circa the turn of the century, but that we didn't witness it's usage until then. If your experiences are/were different, great, those are your personal experiences, yet it still does not negate what everyone else has said.



Locals is the key word in the paragraph. You are currently in Texas (according the location you filled out in GC) and what it is in Texas is not always what it is in Boston, NYC, or Jersey City, etc. You are trying to extrapolate what you know from Texas, to the entire US/other regions of the country. There are undoubtedly similarities, as there are undoubtedly differences.

<-----thank you! you are right...my comment attempts to extrapolate what you referred to as "what you know from Texas to the entire US/other regions of the Country"..now let's see, isn't that kinda of what you did in your original post by saying that:

Originally Posted by Ch2tf
I would speculate the use of "Spanish" in the above quote was appropriate at the time/in the place that it was originally written. I'm from the northeast and prior to going to college (1999/200) "Spanish" was commonly used as a descriptor by both Latinos and non Latinos. In fact, I never really heard/used the term Latino until I entered college. The use of the term Latino is still debated in some areas with some people preferring the use of Latino over Hispanic and vice versa (I'm currently searching for an article I read on this topic a while ago). I know people who still describe themselves as Spanish. To each their own I guess.

Look, I think in the end we both can probably agree on lots of things. But my main issue with your original post is that while there were many folks who used spanish as a descriptor for themselves and allowed non-hispanics to do so as well (be it for whatever motives) the larger majority knew that there was something better (albeit, mostly innacurate) to describe themselves.

Anecdotal experiences such as "carlito and juan jose del monte in my 2000 student school called themselves spanish," are welcome, but should not be accepted as proof of a trend in the use of ethnic qualifier. That's why we pay people with tittles to spit out numbers, HISTORY books and studies.

Let's also remember that this hodge podge of opinions is only relevant in the grand U.S of A. Out in LATIN-america, this spanish nomenclature thing is a non-issue. (as in Español means Spanish language or Spaniard and we just don't do that yo..lol) Hence my level of disbelief that with the constant inflow of hispanic immigrants through this nation, there would be an acceptance of this term.

I tried to understand you better by finding out where you grew up (not that I care about where your hood was or want to steal your identity) but perhaps just dropping something like "I grew up in the Craddle of America" would have given me a clue and more insight on your opinion.

Never said that you were incorrect. Is being "right" a default setting? and is the purpose of an exchange of opinions/ideas to prove the other "wrong"?

But hey, in the end...what they hey...dismiss what I said as just my opinion.....is the closing of the mind that's prevalent nowadays anyways.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by nitido357

<-----thank you! you are right...my comment attempts to extrapolate what you referred to as "what you know from Texas to the entire US/other regions of the Country"..now let's see, isn't that kinda of what you did in your original post by saying that:

I apologize for expecting you to read, but just in case you glossed over it, in my original post I said:

I would speculate the use of "Spanish" in the above quote was appropriate at the time/in the place that it was originally written. I'm from the northeast and prior to going to college (1999/200) "Spanish" was commonly used as a descriptor by both Latinos and non Latinos.

Now if you were unclear of the time and place that MSU was founded and their history written you could have a) asked or b) looked it up yourself.

FYI: Mu Sigma Upsilon was founded at Rutgers University (New Brunswick, NJ) in 1981.

Originally Posted by nitido357

Look, I think in the end we both can probably agree on lots of things. But my main issue with your original post is that while there were many folks who used spanish as a descriptor for themselves and allowed non-hispanics to do so as well (be it for whatever motives) the larger majority knew that there was something better (albeit, mostly innacurate) to describe themselves.

And again your still missing a crucial point, you, nor anyone else can determine what is "better" for an individual or group to self identify as. Great, a majority of people NOW use Latino, that by all means does not mean Latino is better or worse than another term nor should it be forced on those that don't wish to use it simply because you think so and/or the majority of people use it.

Originally Posted by nitido357

Anecdotal experiences such as "carlito and juan jose del monte in my 2000 student school called themselves spanish," are welcome, but should not be accepted as proof of a trend in the use of ethnic qualifier. That's why we pay people with tittles to spit out numbers, HISTORY books and studies.

You're exactly right, so do the reading both history as well as other literature forms and get back to me about what the common terminology for "latinos" in the northeast was in the 1970s and 1980s.

Originally Posted by nitido357

Let's also remember that this hodge podge of opinions is only relevant in the grand U.S of A. Out in LATIN-america, this spanish nomenclature thing is a non-issue. (as in Español means Spanish language or Spaniard and we just don't do that yo..lol) Hence my level of disbelief that with the constant inflow of hispanic immigrants through this nation, there would be an acceptance of this term.

Last I checked we were talking about usage in the United States, particularly in the northeast of the United States, so what "Juan Jose del Monte" in Caracas calls himself while in Caracas is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by nitido357

I tried to understand you better by finding out where you grew up (not that I care about where your hood was or want to steal your identity) but perhaps just dropping something like "I grew up in the Craddle of America" would have given me a clue and more insight on your opinion.

I believe I've said multiple times that I grew up in the northeast. As did tld221 when she related a similar experience, and brownsugar brought her experience growing up in the midwest. Reading is oh so fundamental.

Originally Posted by nitido357

Never said that you were incorrect. Is being "right" a default setting? and is the purpose of an exchange of opinions/ideas to prove the other "wrong"?

No, you just tried to assert that a statement I made from my personal experience was inaccurate.

[nitido357]

Dude!!! reading is my hobby...what are you into? I read mostly Historical and Sociological non-fiction. so...let me put an X on that part of your requirement...X

Mujeres Siempre Unidas was founded in 1981, thanks for reminding me, I learned that like 9 years ago....X

I didn't determine these terms or their acceptance, people before me and you did....BIG X

What Juan Jose del Monte calls himself outside the U.S. was brought up by me because northeast Spanish people (jeje) tend to be newer than the hispanics endemic to the nation that live in New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, California, etc. Thus, you would expect more of the culture from their country of origin present in the latter generations there, at least imho. withhold the X on this one

Inaccurate/incorrect, tomatito/tomato...I said neither of your previous statement...you said reading was what again? fundamental....GIGANTIC X

Look I get it, Beantown people called themselves spanish in the 70's...right? that's why my Grandfather (old school, smoove Dominicano) who lived in the Boston area in the late 70's worked at the Hispanic American Center (don't remember where it was, but it was somewhere there). That's why my mom and her sisters and brothers in suburban-ass New Hampshire were called hispanic by their mostly white classmates.

Look, you are correct about everything you said. (Not really everything, but does it matter anymore?)

I just thought that a person with an advanced degree in Latin American Studies such as yourself would have more of an open mind than just her academics and her anecdotal knowledge. I admit I made a mistake.

Take care and may the almighty bless you and yours this Xmas (got another X in, yeayyyyyyyyy)

The Red Sox Rule!!!!!