Latino Greek Letter Organizations

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by SIAsensacion

I know this post is a little old, but I just got an email that this thread had some new responses, so I started reading (aka procrastinating lol)...

Anyway, I was just wondering if all five of Mu Sigma Upsilon's founding mothers are from SPAIN, as stated in this post??? I have no idea, maybe they are, but I thought that MSU's founders were Latina...maybe a member of MSU can clarify for us

I would speculate the use of "Spanish" in the above quote was appropriate at the time/in the place that it was originally written. I'm from the northeast and prior to going to college (1999/200) "Spanish" was commonly used as a descriptor by both Latinos and non Latinos. In fact, I never really heard/used the term Latino until I entered college. The use of the term Latino is still debated in some areas with some people preferring the use of Latino over Hispanic and vice versa (I'm currently searching for an article I read on this topic a while ago). I know people who still describe themselves as Spanish. To each their own I guess.

[MsDGP007]

Well I think it is a little odd for a Latino/a organization to change their focus and go the multicultural route. It sort of makes the goals of the organization murky and unfocused. But being that many of these groups are relatively young in age (less than 30 years) perhaps they are just trying to "move with the times" or something. The college population in the late 70s and early 80s were dealing with different issues than college students deal with today. So I can understand why they would feel the need to present themselves differently. But overall, I think it's sad. Even though I am a member of a multicultural sorority, I recognize the need for more specific, ethnically-based groups. If it cuts down your recruitement pool; so what? In addition to the Latino/a organizations, I love the Native American organizations.. They seem to bring some really interesting concepts to the Greek community. And their recruitement pool is [I]really [I]small. So there's more to the equation than looking to appeal to as many people as possible.

[nitido357]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I would speculate the use of "Spanish" in the above quote was appropriate at the time/in the place that it was originally written. I'm from the northeast and prior to going to college (1999/200) "Spanish" was commonly used as a descriptor by both Latinos and non Latinos. In fact, I never really heard/used the term Latino until I entered college. The use of the term Latino is still debated in some areas with some people preferring the use of Latino over Hispanic and vice versa (I'm currently searching for an article I read on this topic a while ago). I know people who still describe themselves as Spanish. To each their own I guess.

I don't know. The terms Latino and Hispanic are not something that came up from a movement like the evolution of the words negro, black and african-american. Both terms have been around for a while and taught at most schools in Latino American countries.

Now, maybe they grew up here and no one told them about the difference between a descriptor of a language and a descriptor of a group of people in many nationalities that share more than just the language.

Or perhaps they were going for what poorly foreign history educated Unitedstatians would understand...who knows

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by nitido357

I don't know. The terms Latino and Hispanic are not something that came up from a movement like the evolution of the words negro, black and african-american. Both terms have been around for a while and taught at most schools in Latino American countries.

Now, maybe they grew up here and no one told them about the difference between a descriptor of a language and a descriptor of a group of people in many nationalities that share more than just the language.

Or perhaps they were going for what poorly foreign history educated Unitedstatians would understand...who knows

Or perhaps she, herself, is Latina and chooses to say what she feels. But, who knows.

[nitido357]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Or perhaps she, herself, is Latina and chooses to say what she feels. But, who knows.

What....are...you....saying...?

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by nitido357

I don't know. The terms Latino and Hispanic are not something that came up from a movement like the evolution of the words negro, black and african-american. Both terms have been around for a while and taught at most schools in Latino American countries.

Now, maybe they grew up here and no one told them about the difference between a descriptor of a language and a descriptor of a group of people in many nationalities that share more than just the language.

Or perhaps they were going for what poorly foreign history educated Unitedstatians would understand...who knows

I would say it is matter of personal preference/identification. And while there has been an evolution in nomenclature for African-Americans, "African-American" is also not a term universally accepted/used by all either. People are going to use what they think is most appropriate and no one can tell another how to self identify.

[TotallyWicked]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I would say it is matter of personal preference/identification.

Actually alot of Latino organizations at various colleges have asked schools to drop the name "Hispanic Heritage Month" and adopt Latino heritage month, there is the notion that Hispanic is a gov't term used dominantly for census reasons (I agree with this), I know "Hispano" and "Latino" has been used for a while in Latin America, but it has been predominantly used in the USA because of the diverse ethnic populations located here.


..and I would like names to be named, i mainly wanna see this website folks are talking about LOL

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

Actually alot of Latino organizations at various colleges have asked schools to drop the name "Hispanic Heritage Month" and adopt Latino heritage month, there is the notion that Hispanic is a gov't term used dominantly for census reasons (I agree with this), I know "Hispano" and "Latino" has been used for a while in Latin America, but it has been predominantly used in the USA because of the diverse ethnic populations located here.


..and I would like names to be named, i mainly wanna see this website folks are talking about LOL

I'm not arguing that the word latino is/isn't used, and I am not validating the use of a term over another. I'm well aware of the different p.o.v of this debate as I have both a BA and advanced degree in Latin American Studies. That does not change that fact that all people of latin american descent do not use the term latino to self identify.

[nitido357]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I would say it is matter of personal preference/identification. And while there has been an evolution in nomenclature for African-Americans, "African-American" is also not a term universally accepted/used by all either. People are going to use what they think is most appropriate and no one can tell another how to self identify.

I agree that definition of ethnicity has become a matter of personal preference in this nation we live in. Very cool for us

My original response to your comment was mainly aimed at your assertion that Spanish was used as a descriptor by Latinos and non-Latinos and the time period that you placed it on. I didn't think that 1999-2000 sounded right because even misinformed Latinos know that Spanish is a language. No disrespect, but where did you live? Perhaps that would help me understand your point.

I'm sure that with your Advanced Degree (what's with the degree name-dropping? ) you are well aware that Latino and Hispanic are both VERY old descriptors and that we mestizos, indios, amerindios, criollos, africanos, etc have been using them for quite some time. Even in North America, where millions of us are endemic to.

[brownsugar952]

Originally Posted by nitido357

I agree that definition of ethnicity has become a matter of personal preference in this nation we live in. Very cool for us

My original response to your comment was mainly aimed at your assertion that Spanish was used as a descriptor by Latinos and non-Latinos and the time period that you placed it on. I didn't think that 1999-2000 sounded right because even misinformed Latinos know that Spanish is a language. No disrespect, but where did you live? Perhaps that would help me understand your point.

I'm sure that with your Advanced Degree (what's with the degree name-dropping? ) you are well aware that Latino and Hispanic are both VERY old descriptors and that we mestizos, indios, amerindios, criollos, africanos, etc have been using them for quite some time. Even in North America, where millions of us are endemic to.

I grew up in the midwest and in my neighborhood we called latinos "spanish". I didn't hear the term "latino" until I got to college.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by brownsugar952

I grew up in the midwest and in my neighborhood we called latinos "spanish". I didn't hear the term "latino" until I got to college.

"Spanish" refers to those of descent of the country Spain. HUGE difference. Currently, most people who are referred to as "Latino" or "Hispanic" have ethinic ties to Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, some Central American and rarely South American and even Southern Pacific locales - anyone who sounds like they have a "spanish accent" or "looks" Latino/Hispanic. "Latino" or "Hispanic" are nomenclatures that are very frequently inaccurately applied - an example is people from Mexico or the Phillipnes.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and we referred to each other (most of us first generation Americans as many of our parents emigrated straight "Off the Boat") as Italian, Irish, Portuguese, Spanish (from Spain), Cape Verdean, Ecuadorian, German.... in fact, many of our Churches were predominently full of specific ethnicities, based on the neighborhood they existed in.

So while I don't have an answer as to what is culturally acceptable, I would think that genaralization is even more dangerous in contemporary times when most people these days are "mutts" (excuse the term, I mean it as being of multiple ethnic origins). I am half Italian (first generation Ameican) and 1/2 each Hungarian and Lithuanian.

At the school where I actually graduated, we actually assisted the first Latin fraternity on our campus. The members were of various descents, but the majority had linear ties to Puerto Rico. I thought it funny at the time that only one or two spoke Spanish.

That's my interpretation. I mean no offense in the terms I have used. This is what I grew up in.

[brownsugar952]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

"Spanish" refers to those of descent of the country Spain. HUGE difference. Currently, most people who are referred to as "Latino" or "Hispanic" have ethinic ties to Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, some Central American and rarely South American and even Southern Pacific locales - anyone who sounds like they have a "spanish accent" or "looks" Latino/Hispanic. "Latino" or "Hispanic" are nomenclatures that are very frequently inaccurately applied - an example is people from Mexico or the Phillipnes.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and we referred to each other (most of us first generation Americans as many of our parents emigrated straight "Off the Boat") as Italian, Irish, Portuguese, Spanish (from Spain), Cape Verdean, Ecuadorian, German.... in fact, many of our Churches were predominently full of specific ethnicities, based on the neighborhood they existed in.

So while I don't have an answer as to what is culturally acceptable, I would think that genaralization is even more dangerous in contemporary times when most people these days are "mutts" (excuse the term, I mean it as being of multiple ethnic origins). I am half Italian (first generation Ameican) and 1/2 each Hungarian and Lithuanian.

At the school where I actually graduated, we actually assisted the first Latin fraternity on our campus. The members were of various descents, but the majority had linear ties to Puerto Rico. I thought it funny at the time that only one or two spoke Spanish.

That's my interpretation. I mean no offense in the terms I have used. This is what I grew up in.

I understand and know the history of the terms hispanic and latino. I was just saying that I NEVER heard the term latino until I got to college. The kids in my high school that were Mexican even called themselves Spanish. I had a friend in high school that I didn't know his family was from Mexico until I got to college.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by nitido357

I agree that definition of ethnicity has become a matter of personal preference in this nation we live in. Very cool for us

My original response to your comment was mainly aimed at your assertion that Spanish was used as a descriptor by Latinos and non-Latinos and the time period that you placed it on. I didn't think that 1999-2000 sounded right because even misinformed Latinos know that Spanish is a language. No disrespect, but where did you live? Perhaps that would help me understand your point.

If you actually read the entire thread and/or had an understanding of the original question you'd know that the organization in question is Mu Sigma Upsilon founded in 1981 and not 1999/2007. In the 1980s in the Northeast "Spanish" was heavily used where "Latino" is currently used. I also said prior to going to college in 1999 I had NEVER heard latino used as an ethnicity/descriptor of latin american people. If your personal experience is something different then so be it. In the end of the day, whether or not you believe "spanish" is a correct term to use to describe a group of people or not, you nor I, nor anybody else can tell someone how they should self identify.

[dxp_tiktok]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

In the end of the day, whether or not you believe "spanish" is a correct term to use to describe a group of people or not, you nor I, nor anybody else can tell someone how they should self identify.

I agree. Our campus had a "Conversations in Diversity" program on this same issue and the terms Hispanic, Latino, Chicano, Mexican-American were discussed by students and faculty. Each person had their own opinion, and the great thing was that were able to openly discuss the history of the terms, especially since California has a huge population of people from this background. The lesson was like you stated - we determine our identity through our heritage and experiences. No one should decide that for us.

[nitido357]

carambola!!!! E-Z folks...pump your brakes a little.

I have read the entire thread. I did not address the whole "Mu Sigma Upsilon called themselves spanish" thing because that was not my concern or something that I cared much for.

I am aware that "I'm Spanish, and spanish is this or that"and all of the mish-mash in between.

I just did not agree with the Madam/Señorita/Señora/Dama/Doña that said "before college ...1999-2000..." because I was a dude that lived in the NE during that time and before that and traveled a bit in the area and didn't really experience that at all.

Perhaps that was due to the people I associated with, or the folks at the train stop or whatever...who cares. Point I was making is simple, Hispanic/Latino was not a new thing brought about the Y, more PC generation; like some responses in this thread had stated.

Folks, for the sake of being counted, census bureau folks have come up with about 25 different combinations of Hispanic with something to account for us exercising our right to self-determine our ethnicity. Trust, I recently had to write some newsprint on the rise of Hispanics in the US and localize that. So good for us, the system had to change for us!!!!

Now to the gent that said this ""Latino" or "Hispanic" are nomenclatures that are very frequently inaccurately applied - an example is people from Mexico or the Phillipnes."

I don't claim to have an Advanced Degree on this, but last time I checked with the locals of Mexican Birth and Mexican-Americans...they do use the terms Latino and Hispanic..and granted, they are not the Elitist folks from DF, these are folks from Sonora, Guerrero, Aguas Calientes, Nuevo Leon, Puebla, etc.....so what do you mean by Inaccurate? Not saying you are wrong, just want to hear your reasoning...