So is imitation really the sincerest form of flattery?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

As long as some other GC members (IFC) can make comments about us, then I can make comments about your glos.

Greek unity? White and black greeks are still largely segregated, which was started by IFC and NPC glos. It's 2007 and you still practice this. Why?

Who is the YOU and what is the THIS. Neither I nor my chapter discriminated among members or PNMs based on their race. My organization makes it a policy not to discriminate based on race. I don't deny there are racist members of my organization, but I haven't met one, and I wouldn't let it slide if I did. Events that bring all organizations together are designed specifically to prevent/mitigate/resolve the separation of the NPC and IFC and the NPHC. Honestly, the most common complaint I hear is that XYZ invited the D9 groups to participate but got no response. So, to do what you did: Why are YOU still doing THIS? It's not that simple is it?


[QUOTE=PrettyBoy;1526164]No they didn't, especially having the black dude as part of the act to make them look more hip. That didn't help, that just made them look even more pathetic to me.

/QUOTE] Odds are he was one of their coaches.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

No they didn't, especially having the black dude as part of the act to make them look more hip. That didn't help, that just made them look even more pathetic to me.

Then, whoever the joker was who put this on youtube had the nerve to say "This is how stepping is done." Probably a member who was trying to say something, but didn't.

PB, I don't think you get the context of saying they were cute.

[PrettyInPink777]

I have to admit I actively disliked seeing the KKGs expressing themselves with this 'stepping' or 'strolling'. It was really poorly done ... I may have felt differently if they had rocked it ....? not sure. Maybe I'm old-school (okay, I am old-school!), but I prefer to see stepping maintained as a BGLO expression. There is sooooo much borrowing, and then coopting, of African-American expressions without acknowledgement or appreciation of the origins .. well, it can be hard to take. I'm sure the girls meant no harm, tho'.

That being said, I have a special place in my heart for KKG, because my room-mate was a KKG sister and she supported me MAJORLY when I 'pledged' .... Go Holly!

[PrettyBoy]

[quote=Drolefille;1526179]Who is the YOU and what is the THIS. Neither I nor my chapter discriminated among members or PNMs based on their race. My organization makes it a policy not to discriminate based on race. I don't deny there are racist members of my organization, but I haven't met one, and I wouldn't let it slide if I did. Events that bring all organizations together are designed specifically to prevent/mitigate/resolve the separation of the NPC and IFC and the NPHC. Honestly, the most common complaint I hear is that XYZ invited the D9 groups to participate but got no response. So, to do what you did: Why are YOU still doing THIS? It's not that simple is it?[quote]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

No they didn't, especially having the black dude as part of the act to make them look more hip. That didn't help, that just made them look even more pathetic to me.

/QUOTE] Odds are he was one of their coaches.

When I said you, I didn't mean "you" Drolefille. I meant groups under your umbrella group. Sorry I didn't clarify that better.

I already know your founders judged women based on color. My question to you is how long was it before your organization allowed the 1st non-white to become a member? A long time wasn't it?

Oh yeah, I've heard of that too. I heard D9 members being invited to IFC/NPC events and didn't show. That's nothing new to me.

I don't know who the joker was in the video, and you don't either. Rather he was a trainer or not, doesn't make a difference. The way I saw it was they seemed to have used this joker to make them look more hip. He looked like a damn fool to me.

[Drolefille]

I already know your founders judged women based on color. My question to you is how long was it before you're organization allowed the 1st non-white to become a member? A long time wasn't it?
An article on what happened.
See, I don't deny that racism not only existed within my organization, but within the members who ran it. However, you can't only look at that while ignoring the fact that it was members who changed it. I'm not going to live in guilt over what my predecessors did, I'm going to work to make my sorority better. But that doesn't matter to you, because all you care about is that a handful of women in the late 1800s were (likely) racist. DUH. Living in the past is a waste of time. I don't choose not to associate with people who's ancestors were racist, I choose not to associate with people who are racist. There's a huge difference and that's the one I'm calling you out on in these threads.
Oh yeah, I've heard of that too. I heard D9 members being invited to IFC/NPC events and didn't show. That's nothing new to me.

I don't know who the joker was in the video, and you don't either. Rather he was a trainer or not, doesn't make a difference. The way I saw it was they seemed to have used this joker to make them look more hip. He looked like a damn fool. [/QUOTE]
Who made him participate? It's his own choice. He's just as likely to have enjoyed coaching/helping them out.

(Again, I'm not saying that KKG is oh so cool, just that you're comparing little leaguers to the Major Leagues and you're acting all up your ass about it. )

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

PB, I don't think you get the context of saying they were cute.

At 1st I didn't. I do now. LOL. Thanks for that.
If that's what it means then I'll say they were VERY cute. LMAO!

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by PrettyInPink777

I have to admit I actively disliked seeing the KKGs expressing themselves with this 'stepping' or 'strolling'. It was really poorly done ... I may have felt differently if they had rocked it ....? not sure. Maybe I'm old-school (okay, I am old-school!), but I prefer to see stepping maintained as a BGLO expression. There is sooooo much borrowing, and then coopting, of African-American expressions without acknowledgement or appreciation of the origins .. well, it can be hard to take.

I agree.

[SWTXBelle]

I have had personal experience with the D9 being "too good" to do anything with the NPC/NIC. My alumnae panhellenic has tried to include BGLOs - but to no avail. It is this sort of attitude that is keeping Greeks from uniting.
You will look in vain for any discriminatory language in my sorority's constitution or bylaws - from the time of our founding onwards. I see plenty of minority Gamma Phis - so I can't buy your argument about discrimination. In fact, it is my understanding that we were the first NPC to pledge a black at the University of Alabama. Does it still exist in places? I'm sure it does - but it is not sanctioned by the International Org., and I think hearts and minds are becoming more loving and open as time goes by.
I also know that my sisters and NPC cousins have done incredible things in the area of philanthropy - so Pretty Boy, you really have no reason to say that once we are your equals in social programs you will talk to us. I give all kinds of credit to the D9 for what they have acomplished - why can't you do the same for NPC/NIC?
It is possible for our GLOS to be different, yet unite in presenting ourselves as forward thinking, progressive organizations dedicated to personal and societal improvement. But it's not going to happen with the kind of criticism you have chosen to indulge in. No, KKG is not going to be able to step as well as an organization that does it on a regular basis, and that has a tradition it has preserved over the years. But does that mean you should insult them when they try to participate in something that means a great deal to BGLOs? Having learned how difficult it is, don't you think that the KKG members will have respect for the skills demonstrated by the BGLOs?
It is a given they will not be on the level of the D9 - I like Drolefille's minor/major league analogy. But can't you give them a break, Pretty Boy? I honestly believe that the only way Greeks can continue is to present a united front - that all of us are worthwhile, whatever our individual differences. I think any activity that encourages participation from the BGLO and traditionally WGLO is a good thing. Heck, if you want to laugh at NPC ineptitude at stepping, go ahead. Just don't be mean and hateful about it.
eta - I'm with y'all about the slang and "attitude". That's not good . . .but my main point still stands.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I already know your founders judged women based on color. My question to you is how long was it before you're organization allowed the 1st non-white to become a member? A long time wasn't it?
An article on what happened.
See, I don't deny that racism not only existed within my organization, but within the members who ran it. However, you can't only look at that while ignoring the fact that it was members who changed it. I'm not going to live in guilt over what my predecessors did, I'm going to work to make my sorority better. But that doesn't matter to you, because all you care about is that a handful of women in the late 1800s were (likely) racist. DUH. Living in the past is a waste of time. I don't choose not to associate with people who's ancestors were racist, I choose not to associate with people who are racist. There's a huge difference and that's the one I'm calling you out on in these threads.
Oh yeah, I've heard of that too. I heard D9 members being invited to IFC/NPC events and didn't show. That's nothing new to me.

I don't know who the joker was in the video, and you don't either. Rather he was a trainer or not, doesn't make a difference. The way I saw it was they seemed to have used this joker to make them look more hip. He looked like a damn fool.

Who made him participate? It's his own choice. He's just as likely to have enjoyed coaching/helping them out.

(Again, I'm not saying that KKG is oh so cool, just that you're comparing little leaguers to the Major Leagues and you're acting all up your ass about it. )[/quote]
Drolefille thanks for that, and I see your point. I also respect you and appreciate you, but this is an example I copied from another poster that I can't just let go. History is history, but it's still happening. Why is color (especially black) such a big issue with your people?

Ole Miss Suspends Frat for One Year
By REGINA L. BURNS
Associated Press Writer

JACKSON, Miss. — A University of Mississippi fraternity has been suspended for a year after a black student said he was the victim of a racial slur and a physical assault at a party, school officials said Friday.
Freshman Jeremiah Taylor, 18, said he was pushed down the stairs while attending a Delta Kappa Epsilon party Aug. 22 on the Oxford campus, according to school officials. The student newspaper, The Daily Mississippian, reported Friday on its Web site that Taylor said he was called the N-word at the party.

Taylor, of Southaven, filed a complaint on Aug. 24 with the Dean of Students' office, said Jeffrey Alford, Associate Vice Chancellor for university relations at Ole Miss.

Alford said the party got out of hand and people were asked to leave. Taylor told Mississippi Public Broadcasting in a Sept. 10 radio report that he was on his way downstairs, when "a guy in an orange shirt threw a beer can at me and hit me in my left shoulder." Then others shoved him down the stairs, he said.

Ole Miss officials said Friday the school's judicial council had found the historically white fraternity guilty of violations of harassment, assault, disorderly conduct, possession of alcohol and hosting an unauthorized party.
Alford said the fraternity was also fined $1,000, which will be used to fund an alcohol and drug education program; its members were required to perform 20 hours of community service and attend a racial sensitivity program. Members can continue to live at the residence, but they cannot recruit or socialize, he said.

The newspaper reported this is the first strike against the fraternity in the school's two-strike alcohol policy.

When asked by The Associated Press if this was the first time Ole Miss had suspended a fraternity for racial slurs and harassment, Alford said, "I don't know. It certainly is the first time in recent memory."

He said that all Ole Miss freshmen take a creed that says "I believe in respect for the dignity of each person."

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I also know that my sisters and NPC cousins have done incredible things in the area of philanthropy - so Pretty Boy, you really have no reason to say that once we are your equals in social programs you will talk to us.

He didn't say that. What I said was: "When NIC and NPC Greeks start having a social action program that rivals NPHC orgs, then maybe we'll have something to talk about."

Philanthropy and community service is not what I mean by social action. Also, if you look at that out of context, sure, it does look like I'm saying what you think I'm saying, but I'm not. Not really, at least.

[SWTXBelle]

Sorry for getting the posters confused.
And I am afraid that everyone has their mind made up, and is going to insist on being insulted whether or not that was the intent, so I'm bowing gracefully out, simply saying that I have and always have had the greatest respect for the D9, but have quite frankly become tired of being belittled and insulted for the "crime" of belonging to a NPC org.
Y'all just feel free to go on and on about the heinous crime committed by those KKGs. HOW DARE THEY. Indeed.
Don't bother responding - I won't be checking back here or anything. I apologize for intruding.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I have had personal experience with the D9 being "too good" to do anything with the NPC/NIC. My alumnae panhellenic has tried to include BGLOs - but to no avail. It is this sort of attitude that is keeping Greeks from uniting.
You will look in vain for any discriminatory language in my sorority's constitution or bylaws - from the time of our founding onwards. I see plenty of minority Gamma Phis - so I can't buy your argument about discrimination. In fact, it is my understanding that we were the first NPC to pledge a black at the University of Alabama. Does it still exist in places? I'm sure it does - but it is not sanctioned by the International Org., and I think hearts and minds are becoming more loving and open as time goes by.
I also know that my sisters and NPC cousins have done incredible things in the area of philanthropy - so Pretty Boy, you really have no reason to say that once we are your equals in social programs you will talk to us. I give all kinds of credit to the D9 for what they have acomplished - why can't you do the same for NPC/NIC?
It is possible for our GLOS to be different, yet unite in presenting ourselves as forward thinking, progressive organizations dedicated to personal and societal improvement. But it's not going to happen with the kind of criticism you have chosen to indulge in. No, KKG is not going to be able to step as well as an organization that does it on a regular basis, and that has a tradition it has preserved over the years. But does that mean you should insult them when they try to participate in something that means a great deal to BGLOs? Having learned how difficult it is, don't you think that the KKG members will have respect for the skills demonstrated by the BGLOs?
It is a given they will not be on the level of the D9 - I like Drolefille's minor/major league analogy. But can't you give them a break, Pretty Boy? I honestly believe that the only way Greeks can continue is to present a united front - that all of us are worthwhile, whatever our individual differences. I think any activity that encourages participation from the BGLO and traditionally WGLO is a good thing. Heck, if you want to laugh at NPC ineptitude at stepping, go ahead. Just don't be mean and hateful about it.
eta - I'm with y'all about the slang and "attitude". That's not good . . .but my main point still stands.

I respect your post and agree with some of it. I still get upset knowing the fact that white glos excluded blacks from joining them, had us cooking and cleaning for you all in your sorority and fraternity houses and at the same time referred to one of my founders as a Kappa Alpha "Nig". Yes, that was damn near 100 years ago, but knowing the fact that the racial issues are still happening pisses me off to the highest. It angers me knowing this still goes on but yet you all now want to copy our traditions. I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Drolefille. Why do your people have such an issue excepting people who are non-white (especially black people)? You wonder why we don't participate in your greek week functions? We were rejected from you glos so we created our own. It wasn't an issue when we wern't allowed to participate in your functions, but now that we choose not to, it all of a sudden has become an issue.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Sorry for getting the posters confused.
And I am afraid that everyone has their mind made up, and is going to insist on being insulted whether or not that was the intent, so I'm bowing gracefully out, simply saying that I have and always have had the greatest respect for the D9, but have quite frankly become tired of being belittled and insulted for the "crime" of belonging to a NPC org.

And I'm tired of being belittled, and insulted for the crime of being black.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I have had personal experience with the D9 being "too good" to do anything with the NPC/NIC. My alumnae panhellenic has tried to include BGLOs - but to no avail.

People don't do whatever they don't do for a number of reasons. It's easy to draw conclusions. It's more difficult to talk to people and find out why they aren't participating.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

It is this sort of attitude that is keeping Greeks from uniting.

What attitude? You didn't say anything.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

pledge a black

A black what?

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

People don't do whatever they don't do for a number of reasons. It's easy to draw conclusions. It's more difficult to talk to people and find out why they aren't participating.



What attitude? You didn't say anything.



A black what?

LMAO! DC, you are hilarious, but damn do you make sense.