Suicide?

SoCalGirl · #1 09-16-2007, 12:20 AM

I could probably figure it out if I thought about it; but, doesn't suiciding not change your chances (except for QA) of matching with your first choice? You'll either match or you won't. That's why suiciding is only a good idea if there's no way that you want to get your second/third choice.

KSUViolet06 · #2 09-16-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

Doesn't suiciding not change your chances (except for QA) of matching with your first choice? You'll either match or you won't. That's why suiciding is only a good idea if there's no way that you want to get your second/third choice.

Exactly. You have the same chance of getting a bid to your top choice as anyone else who put them 1st.

The only difference is that you are at more of a risk for not getting a bid AT ALL because if you don't match there, you have no 2nd or 3rd choice listed. So if you don't match with your #1, you get released from recruitment entirely.

This is why schools advise girls not to do it, because they know that you lower your chances of getting a bid by doing so.

DeltaBetaBaby · #3 09-16-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Exactly. You have the same chance of getting a bid to your top choice as anyone else who put them 1st.

The only difference is that you are at more of a risk for not getting a bid AT ALL because if you don't match there, you have no 2nd or 3rd choice listed. So if you don't match with your #1, you get released from recruitment entirely.

This is why schools advise girls not to do it, because they know that you lower your chances of getting a bid by doing so.

Plus, you have no chance of being a QA, so you hurt yourself twice.

SWTXBelle · #4 09-16-2007, 10:20 AM

Sometimes PNM are under the false assumption that by suiciding they will somehow increase the odds that they will get the chapter they put down. I've had to explain to PNM that that is NOT how it works.

UGAalum94 · #5 09-16-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Plus, you have no chance of being a QA, so you hurt yourself twice.

But, and it's not that I'm pro-SIPing, if you really don't want your second and third group, it's probably not a good idea to list them just to try to increase your chances of being a QA, especially if one or both of the second and third groups are smaller than your first choice group.

(If you don't really want the 2nd and 3rd group and you list them just to increase the chances of QA at #1, you're basically betting that all three groups will match to quota before you get a bid and that your #1 group will still be eligible for QAs when they get to your name. I don't think it's a good bet in the age of release figures. Back in the olden days when groups invited as many people back as they wanted and preffed a full three-times-quota, it might have happened, but today, if you pref three groups, you are probably high enough on someone's list to match in regular matching, but there is no guarantee that it's your first choice.)

But if your are thinking of "suiciding" you really have to ask yourself, "would I rather not be Greek than join these other groups?" and the answers has to be "100% yes."

carnation · #6 09-16-2007, 10:49 AM

It seems that there's an increase in SIPing from what my daughters and other active Greeks are telling me. A lot of it is apparently coming from schools who require you to attend the maximum numbers of parties you've been invited to. I can see that this could be a good thing but not if you force women to even go to prefs where they don't want to be! (I did a thread on this somewhere.) If a woman has attended several sets of parties and she KNOWS she can't stand ABC (we're not talking about the women who are unsure), then why try to force her to pledge?

If a school forces a PNM to attend a party at a group she hates and no way would she pledge it, then PH has no business penalizing her if she SIPs. I really think this is also why I keep hearing about so many women who don't show up at their houses on Bid Day or depledge within days....a few years back, you didn't hear of that as much as you do now.

UGAalum94 · #7 09-16-2007, 08:57 PM

Carnation,

I think I understand what you are saying, but the only "penalty" that I've heard of for SIP (at the type of school you describe where you have to go to all the events) is that you aren't eligible for QAs. Have you heard of other penalties?

To me, saying you have to go back to the max. you are invited to, but you don't have to list all the chapters on the bid card is about right.

As far as losing QA potential, we can't create a system where we try to allow girls to be matched to their first choice as long as they go to pref there or we'll be kind of throwing quota out the window, won't we?

So, short of matching everyone to her first choice after prefs, aren't we always going to be faced with girls having to decide between SIPing or facing the possibility that she may not like her second or third choice group as much?

Is there a way that you think it can be fixed? Or is it that you get a little tired of all the focus being on girls matching to groups, rather than matching to groups that they really like?

(I'm always impressed by the numbers of girls who do match at their first choices. They tend to be the vast majority, so at least that's good.)

AOII Angel · #8 09-19-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I could probably figure it out if I thought about it; but, doesn't suiciding not change your chances (except for QA) of matching with your first choice? You'll either match or you won't. That's why suiciding is only a good idea if there's no way that you want to get your second/third choice.

You are correct. You have the same chance of anyone else to get your first (and only choice.) I think "suiciding" is less risky than in prior years since most campus panhellenics are reporting that women are getting their top pics the vast majority of the time. If you are high on your chapter's of choice list, you will get a bid. The computer does not penalize you and drop you to the bottom or any other such nonsense. The issue is that if you can at all see yourself in another group, list them so that you have a lower chance of walking away empty handed at the end of recruitment!

violetpretty · #9 09-19-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I think "suiciding" is less risky than in prior years since most campus panhellenics are reporting that women are getting their top pics the vast majority of the time.

And that is probably because of release figures.

GeekyPenguin · #10 09-19-2007, 01:34 PM

beebadger, please check your private messages!

SoCalGirl · #11 09-19-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

You are correct. You have the same chance of anyone else to get your first (and only choice.) I think "suiciding" is less risky than in prior years since most campus panhellenics are reporting that women are getting their top pics the vast majority of the time. If you are high on your chapter's of choice list, you will get a bid. The computer does not penalize you and drop you to the bottom or any other such nonsense. The issue is that if you can at all see yourself in another group, list them so that you have a lower chance of walking away empty handed at the end of recruitment!

I think I was trying to point out that your chances are the same of getting your first choice regardless if you SIP or not, regardless of any other PNM. You're counting on being either on the 1st bid list or high enough on the 2nd to slide into your first choice's NM class.

If you SIP and match, you would have matched your first choice even if you hadn't SIP.

AOII Angel · #12 09-20-2007, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I think I was trying to point out that your chances are the same of getting your first choice regardless if you SIP or not, regardless of any other PNM. You're counting on being either on the 1st bid list or high enough on the 2nd to slide into your first choice's NM class.

If you SIP and match, you would have matched your first choice even if you hadn't SIP.

We're saying the exact same thing!

UWO_2007 · #13 09-21-2007, 01:18 PM

I think suicide is a dangerous game of roulette. We had a sorority on campus (I just finished recruitment last night) that "dirty rushed" a lot of girls, telling them to suicide sorority "A" and they would pick that PNM. Out of about 20-25 girls... they only took 6. They knew going in that they could only take 6...

BabyPiNK_FL · #14 09-21-2007, 01:25 PM

Well when everyone plays by the rules, suicide can be good if you'd rather have no bid if you can't be ABC. It doesn't work when there are unPanhellenic things going on!

I personally advocate suicide. Okay that sounds so wrong! I pesonally advocate SIP. Don't take up a space that someone else really may have wanted or lead another group on thinking you're jumping off stage on bid day to them when you would rather eat dirt and run crying down the street after opening the envelope!

AOII Angel · #15 09-21-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

Well when everyone plays by the rules, suicide can be good if you'd rather have no bid if you can't be ABC. It doesn't work when there are unPanhellenic things going on!

I personally advocate suicide. Okay that sounds so wrong! I pesonally advocate SIP. Don't take up a space that someone else really may have wanted or lead another group on thinking you're jumping off stage on bid day to them when you would rather eat dirt and run crying down the street after opening the envelope!

I think that advocating SIP is not realistic. Of course with the release figures, most when are getting their first choice. Recruitment is a confusing time. If a PNM gets stuck on one group and basically ignores the attributes of another group, how would she know that she'd rather shoot herself than become a member. Giving a group the chance to convince you after your released from your favorite group is the basis of the release figures concept. Not SIPing and giving a group a chance after bid is essentially the same. You have until inititation to really decide if it is truly not for you! The majority of the time, the NM will fit in. There are very few groups out there that people would rather die than be a part of if they actually knew what that group was about. I think we do the NPC chapters and the sisters in those chapters a disservice by implying that they aren't worth peoples' time. Every NPC national organization has a rich history that would benefit anyone! Go Panhellenic!!!