The link between Greek membership and social conservatism

[AGDee]

In general, they do. This is why greek membership suffered so in the early 70's. The greek system was seen as part of "The Establishment" and the vast majority of college students wanted nothing to do with "The Establishment". There are certain standards we are expected to uphold as members of our organizations and they tend to be pretty conservative. The true irony in this phenomena, for the women's groups anyway, is that our organizations were founded by women who were attending college during times that it was not encouraged. So, they were very progressive women who set out to develop our organizations.

That definitely doesn't mean there are no liberals in GLOs and it definitely varies by region, but extreme liberals (think anarchy types) aren't going to be interested in joining a group where they are told what they can wear when they drink, etc.

[Little32]

Conservative does not necessarily equal negative. Also, I think that most folks assoiciate greek life with a degree of conformity (whether that is true or not), and the notion that one has to conform to be a member overrides the other positives that might be associated with greek life.

Also, conservative is relative. In the black community, NPHC organizations are often considered conservative because of some of the values they espouse. However, when considered in relation to other GLOs, NPHC organizations might be considered down-right radical.

As my grandfather used to say "It's all relative."

[Scandia]

My family is very conservative overall- and not fond of GLOs at all. I am a fence-sitting moderate, and I am an A Phi O brother and am pursuing AI as well.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Scandia

My family is very conservative overall- and not fond of GLOs at all. I am a fence-sitting moderate, and I am an A Phi O brother and am pursuing AI as well.

Yeah, you might want to not remind people of that.

/Just sayin'

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

Latino/as.

Originally Posted by skylark

Latino/Latina

FWIW, it's perfectly correct to refer to both male and female Hispanics as "Latinos". It functions the same way as Alumni/Alumnae.

[PiKA2001]

Well most fraternities strive to live up to values and a set of beliefs that were established 100+ years ago, a time when American culture was conservative, so this is not at all very surprising. Also, if you look at the things that most Greeks do, (serenades, pinnings, date parties,etc) it is kind of a throw back to an older generation.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by Little32;1510274

Also, conservative is relative. In the black community, NPHC organizations are often considered conservative because of some of the values they espouse. However, [B

when considered in relation to other GLOs, NPHC organizations might be considered down-right radical[/B].

Assuming you mean NPC and IFC groups...how? I don't see it.

[Little32]

Well that comment is based on the way that I see things talked about on this site. I have read threads and posters who suggest that NPC and IFC do things very differently and have very different values in relation to NPHC organizations.

Also, simply the nature of our histories, the social contexts in which they were established, and the purposes for which our organizations were established inherently suggest a difference in values. That gap may be more narrow, wider, or unchanged today, depending on who you ask.

[GeekyPenguin]

I would say that on a whole the NPC/IFC organizations still tend to be conservative. Certainly I've observed this in the south, but even in the midwest it's there. Why is that? Probably because GLOs were a place where people could be excluded. At first, you didn't have to let in the Catholics or the Jews. Then they slowly became okay, but you still didn't have to let in the African-Americans or Latino/as. Greek organizations have always been a little behind the civil rights movements (with the possible exception of women's suffrage) and more conservative people probably flocked to them as a place where their values were being "upheld" as the norm still.

[summer_gphib]

I think there is truth to that, but I also think that sororities and fraternities are steeped in tradition. That tradition has appeal to those who are more unwilling to embrace new ideas. Tradition is one of the things I love the most about my sorority. It's an unchanging bond in a world of constant change.

Although I am a liberal. And I am still wearing my birkenstocks. *grin*

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

I would say that on a whole the NPC/IFC organizations still tend to be conservative. Certainly I've observed this in the south, but even in the midwest it's there. Why is that? Probably because GLOs were a place where people could be excluded. At first, you didn't have to let in the Catholics or the Jews. Then they slowly became okay, but you still didn't have to let in the African-Americans or Latino/as. Greek organizations have always been a little behind the civil rights movements (with the possible exception of women's suffrage) and more conservative people probably flocked to them as a place where their values were being "upheld" as the norm still.

For what it's worth, I think the chapters to whom religious, racial, and and ethnic exclusion are their primary motivations for "conservative" people to flock to them are pretty few and far between.

I agree that the ability to exclude may have kept the groups the same over time and didn't present many social challenges to the members internally, but I don't think it explains WHY anyone joins. It's effect is secondary to the other traditions and purposes of the groups.

[Kevin]

In my experience, on the whole, members of fraternities and sororities grew up in fairly well-off families. Such families tend to raise kids with conservative values.

[sugar and spice]

IFC/NPC sororities tend to skew conservative -- I can't see how this is up for debate. (I don't know enough about the NPHC to comment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true for them also, given the argument below.) The sororities and fraternities on my campus were probably split right down the middle, but this is on a notoriously liberal campus where, on the whole, probably 80+ percent leaned left. That said, I think that Greek life tends to attract moderates more than anything. The extreme conservatives I know are just as turned off by stereotypes of Greek life they associate with liberalism (hardcore drinking and partying, promiscuity, relaxed moral standards) as the extreme liberals are with the aspects they associate with conservatism (sexism/racism, conformity, groupthink).

I do think that the adherence to tradition is the major point here. On campuses with less traditional Greek systems, I've found that you're more likely to have liberal members. On campuses with traditional Greek systems, less so. On campuses with sororities and fraternities with decades, maybe 100+ of history, tradition is a big thing. Greeks as a whole tend to be a pretty nostalgic bunch, and "it's the way we've always done things" tends to be a fairly popular defense for a whole range of decisions. Some of these choices are not particularly political -- whether or not to haze, recruitment methods, which songs to sing at rush. Others -- like the decision to allow Jews/Catholics/people of color into our organizations, gender roles, behavior standards, whether gay members will be embraced, tolerated but ignored, or not allowed at all -- clearly are, and we have always lagged behind the college population as a whole on these viewpoints because of a dogmatic adherence to tradition. Unfortunately, as the gap between the GDI population's views and the Greek population's views widened in the late 1960s/1970s, GDI tolerance for the Greek organizations decreased. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really recall there being a big focus on the political leanings of GDIs versus independents prior to, oh, 1960? The question of whether or not to go Greek mostly hinged on finances and individual preference prior to that, yes?)

Since then we've been stuck with the rep of being conservative and conformist, which turns a lot of socially liberal potential members away right off the bat. I went to a high school where nobody -- I literally mean no one -- planned on rushing when they went to college, including those that you'd most expect would go Greek. Obviously a few of us ended up doing so, but I think it's no surprise that most of us who rushed either went to schools where a large majority of the students were Greek and rush was in the second semester (they had time to be talked into it, meet Greek friends and see that the stereotypes were not true) or rushed at schools where the Greek systems were less traditional. The town that I grew up in is very socially liberal, and growing up, we had no Greek role models. It was just understood that going Greek was something that conservatives did -- people who were not us, people who valued wealth, tradition -- spoiled brats with daddy's credit cards. If you're not exposed to any other ideas than that growing up, it's rare that you'll give Greek life a second thought when you actually get to college. Which ensures that even in organizations where liberal members would be valued or at least tolerated , most liberal college students don't even get to the opening round of the rush process in the first place.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by AGDee

In general, they do. This is why greek membership suffered so in the early 70's. The greek system was seen as part of "The Establishment" and the vast majority of college students wanted nothing to do with "The Establishment". There are certain standards we are expected to uphold as members of our organizations and they tend to be pretty conservative. The true irony in this phenomena, for the women's groups anyway, is that our organizations were founded by women who were attending college during times that it was not encouraged. So, they were very progressive women who set out to develop our organizations.

My college banned general GLOs for that very reason during that time period. Not so coincidentally, a lot of extra liberal feminist student affairs people joined the staff at that time. Luckily, the last of them just retired so hopefully with new leadership we can revisit the GLO issue -- especially since both AEPi and another NIC org have official (for the org) unrecognized (by the school) chapters there.